Webinar series

Electrical apprentice safety webinar

Chris Bombolas

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our electrical apprentice safety webinar. I'm Chris Bombolas. I'll be your MC for all for this morning. And I am from the office of industrial relations. Firstly, I would like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we meet, and elders past, present and emerging. Of course, we're celebrating electricity safety week this week, with a range of free events and prizes. So, thanks for joining us today. Electricity safety week is about raising the awareness of electrical safety. We have some 57,550 licensed electrical workers in Queensland and almost 9,000 electrical apprentices. So, we want to make sure every one of you goes home safely at the end of each and every workday. Throughout today's session, there is an opportunity to ask our electrical apprentice of the year, winners and finalists, any questions you like. Just type them into the live Q and A box on the right of your screen. And we will get to them during the panel session. And get this, just by typing your question, you'll go into the draw to win one of three $100 trade equipment gift vouchers. Now that's an easy competition with some pretty good odds. If you have any technical questions during the live stream, please make sure the sound on your computer is turned on. Try refreshing your browser, and of course, if that doesn't work, contact us via the Q and A chat box. Let's get the official proceedings underway, and I'd like to welcome Donna Heelan, Executive Director of the Electrical Safety Office, to officially kickstart today's event, Donna.

Donna Heelan

Thanks Chris, thank you, everyone. And welcome for today's first event from electricity safety week.

We're here today to acknowledge the important role you all play as apprentices and as tradespeople as our State here grows and grows. That important role includes responsibilities in relation to the professionalism and the safety of yourselves, your mates and your communities. And that's where the electrical safety office comes in.

We play a number of key roles as the electrical safety regulator for Queensland, working with industry and protecting the community. We have a number of key areas, including compliance, supply networks, field services, electrical equipment and licensing. On any given day in Queensland, we are charged with enforcing the state's law, electrical safety laws and seeing that workers have a safe environment in which to carry on your important work.

And as Chris has said, that's a lot of workers. In the vicinity of 12,000 electrical contractors, 57,000 electrical workers and almost 9,000 electrical apprentices. I'm sure that you will all agree that each and one of you and your colleagues, play a critical role in keeping the lights on, and the world as we know it running normally. Without electrical workers and contractors, we couldn't enjoy the good things in life like cold beer, watching your favorite show on TV, having a charge mobile phone, or a summer approaches air conditioning. These things are important at any time, but no more so than in times like today, as we face the ongoing COVID threat. Your work keeps our hospitals ticking and our grandparents and kids safe and secure in their aged-care and school facilities. We like to think our work here at the electrical safety offices pretty special too.

And in the past year, we have had a number of firsts. We've had the first industrial manslaughter charge being laid under the electrical safety act. After a worker was tragically fatally killed after coming into contact with an overhead line. We've succeeded in obtaining three magistrate court injunctions for fire to comply with improvement notices, and issued the first immediate electrical license suspension ever in Queensland. We've also commenced a review into the electrical safety act to ensure that the legislation is keeping pace with emerging technology and industry. As the Executive Director for the ESO, there are a number of emerging trends that are of significant concern to all of us. The first of these is the hazard of working around energized parts, and the risk of injury as a result of an arc flash.

The Director of Field Services, Michael Gibson, is gonna talk more about this very important topic after me. If you haven't done so already, I urge you to Google mark story, and watch how quickly an incident can happen, and how it can seriously affect your life and your loved ones. In the past couple of years, the electrical safety office has seen and dealt with some not so great things, things that come with the territory when you're enforcing the laws to keep everyone safe.

We've had eight referrals to the electrical licensing committee, all involving apprentices, and I've had to attend a number of serious electrical incidents involving apprentices. In one incident, a second year electrical apprentice, working on a switchboard, received an electric shock resulting in burns to the palms of both hands. He will be requiring ongoing treatment to release scar tissue to prevent his hands from curling. A school-based electrical apprentice was replacing surface mounted fluorescent light fittings, when they came into contact with copper conductors resulting in burn on the palm of her hand and knuckle of her index finger. And a fourth year apprentice received a high voltage shock and burns to his arms and head, after an arc flash incident occurred, while working with a circuit breaker enclosure. So, we all know that electricity can be dangerous, and this is where your responsibility kicks in, and the duties of your employers.

And also this is where the Electrical Safety Office is on hand to assist. But truly it is an exciting time to be working in this industry, with the emergence of renewable technologies, such as PV solar, solar and wind farms, not to mention the increasing technologies around batteries, battery storage, independently-owned small scale generation and storage of power, the use of hydrogen electric vehicles, and in some areas, the development of electric commuter airplanes. If you told your grandparents 20 years ago, that you could be flying in an airplane, completely powered by batteries, they would have thought you were nuts. But with all change comes challenges. And one of them is being able to keep up to date with what is happening in this industry. One of the other emerging challenges is mental health.

And I'm pleased that John Brady is here today, to speak to this very important topic that we all need to be mindful of. In addition, I extend an invitation to all of you to please sign up and join our electrical contractors webinar, which is a free live webinar for contractors, electricians and anyone working in the electrical industry to listen to Paul Spinks. And he's engaging presentation, "The wake-up call" on Thursday, the 9th of September at 9:00 a.m. Please go to our website to register. The role of the regulator is to provide information and education.

And one of the critical ways we can do this is through our eSAFE Electrical newsletter. It's full of information just for you. And I would urge you to jump onto the ESO website and sign up to receive this information. And we've recently started an eSAFE Electrical-Apprentice edition, which is targeted just for apprentices in your field. Again, thank you very much for tuning in today.

And I hope that if you take just one thing away, it is about how important your role is, and how you play your important role in Queensland, and how critical it is for you to work safe. Look out for your mates, call out poor work practices and make sure that everyone goes home safely. I'll now hand over to Michael Gibson.

Michael has over 20 years’ experience in the electrical industry, and has an absolute wealth of knowledge and experience in this field. Over to you, Michael.

Michael Gibson

Thank you, Donna. And good morning to everybody.

We wanna use these types of opportunity, it is not only to raise a really important safety message, but also to introduce ourselves as the ESO and the role that we play in electrical safety and that regulatory practices that we implement, to apply the legislation. What I wanna talk today, like Donna said, is working near live parts. Those of you in this industry, if you're new or you've done a couple of years as an apprentice, if you're not aware of the risk associated with this activity, then we really need this message to get hold.

And we wanna engage with you further, not only you, but also the people that you work with and supervise you. So, make no mistake working on or near energized parts is hazardous. It's as clear as that. Is the greatest risks that you will face in your activities. And it's also the greatest risks, where you may be exposed to an arc flash incident. We'll talk about what an arc flash incident is, but look at the damage that some of these incidences occurred. Donna spoken about that already.

And you'll also see some of our messages that we've put out where people have been significantly injured by an arc flash. We talk about significant burn injuries, the shock, the risk of electrocution and the risk of fires that occurred. We wanna make it clear that if you could do all your work day energized, then there would never be a risk of arc flash, or you receiving a shock. But in our industry, that's impossible.

You have to work and undertake testing, you have to work and do your role whether it's testing, fault-finding, proving de-energize, you will be exposed to live parts and you need a process, an Alyssa system of work to do this. If you don't know what an arc flash is. There's a really brief, there's a terrible fault depicting the outcome of an arc flash. What that fault doesn't show is the degree of injury to the worker who held a screwdriver. And the actual screwdriver is still welded to the circuit breaker that that electrician was working on.

So an arc flash, very basically is unintended. it's an unintended discharge of electrical energy and it can be caused by those three or four points there. Often it's an installation breakdown or it's a compromise of installation or damage and contamination to the equipment. It's really poor work practice. It's a failure during switching. It might not be anything you've done. 'Cause we often work with aging equipment, or could be a poor contact or aging resistance. That's created a hot joint. So, these are what we would consider some of the causes of an arc flash. But what we really wanna talk about today is that work practice issue that's gonna put you at the greatest exposure.

Over the last 12 months and I think Donna has already spoken about this as the number of injuries we've seen from arc flash incidents. So, we've got 10 injuries and some of those injuries are quite significant, long-term injuries, where people have been long-term absent from work and the significant impact that that has on people's mental health and not only yourself, but the people around you, your supervisors. So, do not underestimate the hazards associated with the activities you're undertaking and what an arc flash industry and the impact it can have.

What we want to talk about is what's the best way to think about managing the risk of an arc flash. And it's about understanding that hazard. And I think everyone's got to sit back and consider when the activities that they are doing and what, and understand the impact of an arc flash, identify those assets that you can be working on, that you are gonna have greater exposure, and particularly that's gonna be around switchboards, or when you start to work on electrical equipment, when you open up boxes or remove carvers of electrical equipment, that's when you are starting to work near live parts.

We talk about calculating incident energy. It's really complex area, but if I simplify it down to something very small, the bigger the board you're working on, the bigger the bomb if you do something wrong. I don't wanna undermine it, but it's as simple as that. So, when you start working on bigger equipment, it's going to have a greater impact on you if something goes wrong. What we wanna talk about is the developing in what we call risk treatments and the hierarchy of controls to manage that risk and develop those effectiveness in the monitoring review. Now we all know about risk management. So, we'll cover it off as quickly as we can.

There's our implementation of our arc flash controls. Some of that is not always possible, like we said, elimination, work the energized in every situation and we cannot enforce that message enough. If there's no reason to do it, de-energize the equipment you're working on. It's as simple as that. When you have to do testing, you have to confirm isolation, have a safe system of work, have your training, have your competency is up to date, to do those types of tasks. And that's where you'll be learning when you go through your apprenticeship, those types of processes to do it safely. We look at substitution, isolation, engineering, we are getting far better at producing equipment and switchboards that are far safer to people that work in front of, because they actually able to, they're designed to contain and redirect an arc flash incident. So, that's moving forward. But right now we've got a whole part of all infrastructure out there. That's still gonna have that risk.

Administration looks at permits to work. And how are you gonna have your work method statements. And I think it's really really important we put PPE last for a very important reason. It's incredibly important to have your PPE on, but when you look at why it's there for it's just to reduce the level of injury to curable burn. So, it's not there to prevent it. It's just going to reduce that injury. You will be injured, but it's just to get it down. When we're talking about an arc flash. And what we're really working on at the moment in ESO is the human factors about working on or near the risk and arc flash management.

We're actually conducting a study with using the universities and we've spoken to employers and workers and we've analyzed a lot of data to work out. What's the best way we can influence people to start putting slices and working place and manage this risk. So, some of the factors can really affect how the consequences of obviously training. If I'm not trained adequately to do this type of work on placing myself at risk. A lot of the incidents we've looked at over the last 12 months have been errors and mistakes. People are not testing before they touch. It's as simple as that. If you wanna get a very basic message, get it embroidered on your shirt or something, tests before you touch, never assume anything. That's part of this process. Complacency, failure to follow work instructions, a number of times where we'd gone to an incident and a worker has gone outside of work instruction. They've chosen not to de-energize for a very simple reason, not enough lights, whatever, follow your work instructions. That's what they're for. Don't be distracted when you are working near live parts, any distraction is of bad thing. Stop, take a step back rebalance what you're thinking about and start again.

The last couple of points is about the legislative reasons, why too many story arc or arc flash and working on an energized equipment. At the end of the day, unless there's a very set criteria that working energized is actually prohibited. You cannot do it, priority one. If you are choosing to do it, you've gotta sit there and look at those very particular circumstances that are detailed in the electrical safety regulation six and 18.

So, as a little bit of a wrap-up, we speak about how to do our written risk assessments, ensuring that your people are competent in implementing the safe system of work. Three critical areas that we wanna really push forward with, and how we want to help industry and be a part of this process to manage this ongoing risk of the arc flash.

Oh goodness, I've gone one too many, sorry, Chris.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks to Michael and of course Donna and very important messages, particularly surrounding arc flash.

And I think the basic message is work de-energised and don't work in live circumstances, no matter what the reason. And I would urge you once again, that if you want more on arc flash and what it all means, and the consequences of an arc flash and a serious one at that, look up Mark's story, it's available at eso.qld.gov.au, have a look at that. It's quite confronting, but it tells the real story and what can happen. And hopefully it doesn't happen to you. And that's part of the reason that Mark joined us to make that case study film is to get the message through so that it doesn't happen to anyone else in the industry.

To now for a change of tact. So, it's our panel session, and we've assembled three electrical apprentices of the year winners and finalists. And my question to you, who've joined us this morning. There's a shot of our panel. How's your apprenticeship going? Some of you might be first year or those about to finish either way. You've probably got concerns or questions that your just not comfortable asking your boss. Well, here's the thing that you can do. We've convinced three electrical apprentice of the year, winners and finalists to join us today in a panel session where you can ask them anything you like about their electrical apprenticeship and of course they've advanced into a career in the electrical industry. So, their careers are advancing. So, you can ask them what you'd like to ask them that joined us. And it is my pleasure to introduce these guys.

First up, Hannah Watts. Now Hannah finished her electrical apprenticeship in 2020 and is now an Electrical Fitter Mechanic for Queensland health. Hannah was awarded the 2020 Electrical Trades Union Apprentice of the year for her leadership qualities, dedication to the trade and the union. She is also co-founder of Sparkettes Queensland, a Facebook group for women in the electrical trades to support one another. So, welcome to Hannah.

Next up, Nadine Forbes. Nadine is a grade five electrician with Fredon Queensland after finishing her apprenticeship in June this year. Nadine was awarded the 2021 NECA Queensland Apprentice of the Year for her enthusiasm and determination to learn and understand how work is completed safely and professionally. Well done, Nadine, thanks for joining us.

And last and certainly not least is Hans Van der Merwe. Hans is a qualified electrical fitter mechanic at Oakey Beef Exports. He finished his electrical apprenticeship in 2020. Hans was named one of the top three finalists in the Darling Downs South West Region Apprentice of the Year awards, where he was commended for his commitment to dedication, to skills and training.

So, that's our panel. I encourage you to join us via the panel and ask your question. No questions apparently are off limits.

The good news is, three $100 trade equipment vouchers are to be given away for those who ask the question. So, be sure to include your name and email address so we can contact you after the webinar. It's that easy. Ask a question, leave some contact details. And if you're one of the lucky three, we'll get back to you. I know there's plenty of TAFE classes watching today from auditoriums and classrooms. So, if you've got a question holler at your teacher, your instructor, get them to type it in. I don't know if I'll let them win a hundred dollars voucher, but anyway. Just make sure they give you the gift voucher, if your question wins. So, they've got to put your details in not theirs. Let's get started with the panel, welcome guys. Good to be here.

Thank you. You've heard from Michael and Mark, Michael and Donna, I peg your pardon. Do you have a safety tip from your point of view that you've picked up during your apprenticeship and in the early stages of your career? Let's start with you, Hannah.

Hannah Watts

Yeah, mine would be never ever trust anybody. We've already been told this morning that you don't make assumptions because when you make assumptions, that's when you're gonna get into trouble, always test everything. Even if someone tells you they've tested it, always make sure it's isolated before you touch it as well.

Chris Bombolas

Hans, what about you? You started off working as a labourer, and then eventually an apprentice electrician. And now you're fully qualified, safety advice from you.

Hans van der Merwe

Pretty much just make sure you test before you touch. It's as simple as that. I try and impress your tradie. Just keep your head a bit. And make sure you do everything right, pretty much.

Chris Bombolas

And would you also advise those who are watching today to stand their ground if they feel uncomfortable. Because quite often you're a bit intimidated by the senior members of staff around you, your colleagues.

Hans van der Merwe

Look, it's very hard. If you feel unsafe and you try the person and someone force you to do something you don't wanna do, it's very hard to try and stand up to him. 'Cause I think then I'm more than what you do. But if you feel unsafe, you have the right to say, no, I'm not doing it. And then just deal with the consequences as a company. Unfortunately, sometimes that might mean you might lose your job, but if you're a part of the union they will look after you, they did with me. And I'm pretty sure they'll do the same for you.

Chris Bombolas

Nadine, you're the lucky last.

Nadine Forbes

Yeah, I think similarly to these guys test before you touch and be responsible for your own wellbeing, if you don't feel safe, don't do it, but it's up to you to look after yourself. So, at the end of the day, you're the one that's gonna put up with the consequences.

Chris Bombolas

Got a question that's coming from our audience. What's the most important experience or lesson you learnt as an apprentice that you will carry throughout your whole career. So, something that's really stuck in your mind. Who wants to go first?

Nadine Forbes

I think probably on that note was my tradesman was drilling into me that it's up to me to take responsibility for my own wellbeing. And coming from this, he had told me he turned off a breaker and I was to work on some GPOs, and just being a bit smart. I pulled out my volt stick and said better test it. And it was live. I'm very lucky that nothing went further than that, but it was a lesson that I learnt that I'll take with me to test everything.

Chris Bombolas

Hans.

Hans van der Merwe

It's almost the same thing at the replies to start out, to start a contactor. And my trades person told me that the circle was de-energized on pull them in my multimeter and tested the control circuit. And it was 240 still on there. And I was just about to start disconnecting metal. I thought, nah, better test it just in case. And I'm very glad I did.

Chris Bombolas

Hannah.

Hannah Watts

Mine would be that it's okay to have difficult conversations. And like everybody gets the heart racing or am I actually allowed to raise these concerns with someone who's in a power of sort of like authority over you, but it's always okay. And at the end of the day, it's about you going home safely and your employer has that obligation to meet that you're gonna go home safely as well. So, have those difficult conversations. If you need to step back, get advice from people about what you could have done better in the situation. But if you feel like it's a little bit uncomfortable and you know that something could go wrong, always speak up, always say I'm not comfortable, is there a better way to do this job.

Chris Bombolas

Just along those lines just quickly. And we're sort of harping on this and we're getting some questions as we speak. With the knowledge that you have now, and you're further advanced in your career. What do you wish you could tell your first year apprentice self? So, you get we're doing a transformation back to when you started now, what could you tell yourself? 'Cause we've got a lot of first-year apprentices watching today, let's start with you, Hannah.

Hannah Watts

But you have more rights than you think you do. So, in my first year, I actually needed to have a hip surgery, 'cause I've got an impingement and I actually had an employer tell me that I wouldn't be able to do my job with that injury. So, I guess don't let people tell you what you can and can't do. You can achieve anything you wanna put your mind to. And anything you wanna work hard for.

Chris Bombolas

Hans, now go back to your first year that you would be yourself.

Hans van der Merwe

Listen to your trades person, especially if you know for a fact that they know what they’re doing, make sure you study when you go to TAFE. And if you don't understand something, ask, just keep asking questions until you understand it. Don't assume you do, make sure you actually understand it.

Chris Bombolas

That's pretty good. That's probably a life lesson that a lot of us could learn even at 61 years of age.

Nadine Forbes

Similar to Hans is ask more questions. And if you don't understand it and you have to ask six times, ask it until you understand it. We all learn in different manners. And sometimes you just need it explained a little bit different, but just keep asking questions.

Chris Bombolas

It's the adage, isn't it? There's no such thing as a dumb question, particularly if in the end it may save your life. All right, let's go to a question, that's come in from Susan. This is to you guys, when you first started working as an apprentice, what were you most afraid of doing in your job? Was there one thing that you sort of balked at doing, when you first started and thanks to Susan for that question.

Hannah Watts

I don't think I was really afraid of much in my first year. You don't really realize all the dangers that are around you until you're a little bit further in and you're like, oh wow. I was doing all that in my first year. And didn't realize that it could have gone catastrophically wrong. So, I worked underneath locomotors. I was disconnecting locomotors, changing out traction motor oil. So, my apprenticeship sort of wasn't the normal avenue that most people go down. My biggest problem would have been being crushed by a locomotive or being hit by one. So, safety was pretty high on the railways.

Chris Bombolas

Hans.

Hans van der Merwe

I remember one day my trades person opened up a switchboard with like hundreds of contactors in there, just little like control relays and stuff all that. And my biggest fear was that I would never be able to look at that board and understand what's actually going on in there, and not being able to be a good electrician, but I've actually proven myself wrong. And I have a lot of two young apprentices at work, they look up to me now. So, it's good.

Chris Bombolas

How do you feel with that responsibility, just as a follow-up questionnaire, 'cause you started your apprenticeship later in life. You had a few years of work experience behind you. Now you're in charge, how are you handling that?

Hans van der Merwe

To be honest, they always wanna, oh can I do this? Now you stay in there, you watch me do it. I'll show you her do it once, and I'll let you have a go to the next one, as long as I can prove that it's safe for you to touch it.

Chris Bombolas

Let's go to, Nadine.

Nadine Forbes

I guess similarly like when you first start not knowing it's overwhelming and not knowing if I'd ever be able to speak as fluently as my tradesman and know the ins and outs of the industry. I think also in Queensland for me, was working under houses and ceiling spaces was all the animals and vermin that can kill you as well. Probably one of my biggest things that. So, that was one of the things. I think just overwhelming the industry and how much I thought I had to know. But as you get to know, you continually learning.

Chris Bombolas

Let's move on to another of our questions and we thank everybody for joining us and remember the Q and A box while you're watching this, you can get in and win one of those trade vouchers, if you're lucky enough. This is from Danchris, what are the quality of trades person that you look forward to that apprentices should look up to? So, you're looking for qualities in that trades person, someone who's senior perhaps a role model that you can look up to. Maybe we'll start with Hans this time.

Hans van der Merwe

Just watch them. If they always do everything saved, do everything by the book. If they're not sure and ask other trades persons for help or advice or anything, that's a very good quality to have in a trades person I belief.

Chris Bombolas

Nadine.

Nadine Forbes

Yeah, someone who shows leadership skills and is willing to help you and ask questions to you as well as she engages you and encourages you to ask more questions. And if they're not sure admits that they're not sure and engages other tradespeople to get the job done, and share their knowledge as well.

Hannah Watts

Some of the best tradespeople have had the same qualities. And that was they're really approachable. So, whether it be a work question or even like hey, I'm struggling with this outside of work. What's your life advice? 'Cause I work with guys who are substantially older than me. They're not all, they're just substantially older. So, the fact that they're approachable and you can have honest conversations about anything, makes it really easy to learn off them as an apprentice. And it's quality that I'm tryna work on myself as well to be a good trades person that's able to be approached by an apprentice and able to help through life stuff and through work stuff.

Chris Bombolas

Well, let's flip that situation. We've talked about the positives. Let's talk about what could be possible negatives that we can confront in our workplaces. How do you handle workplace banter, particularly if it starts to make you feel uncomfortable, it starts to creep into that bullying territory. What's your advice to an apprentice who might be going through this, 'cause this is a really scary time. You're an apprentice you're trying your best to learn a trade and all of a sudden things aren't going as smoothly as they should. Perhaps we'll start with you, Hannah.

Hannah Watts

That's a really really good question and a really important question 'cause there is a line between banter and bullying, and I think it's hard for people around you to call out bullying, if they still see it as banter and you're not experiencing banter anymore, you're experiencing bullying.

I think you're gonna have to have one of those courageous conversations where you find someone that's an ally to you and you say, this is making me feel really uncomfortable. Would you mind coming and having a chat with the guys, to the guys about what's going on and maybe changing the situation that you're all in as a workforce? 'Cause everybody's there for the same reason. They all wanna enjoy the workplace that they're going to. So, if you're not enjoying that you need to speak up and maybe get someone to help you with it as well.

Chris Bombolas

Hans.

Hans van der Merwe

I've never really had, we always pick on each other and stuff in the workshop and I'm like, oh, I'm used to it sort of thing. I've never really experienced workplace bullying. But as Hannah said, if you do feel uncomfortable, try and find someone to talk to, whether it be a trades person that you work with, and it's another one that's bullying you or whether it's their supervisor or someone, just even HR manager or someone just try and find someone to talk to, to give you a hand with it.

Chris Bombolas

Hans, just on that you say it's a good friendly banter, between you and your colleagues. But if someone starts to feel uncomfortable, not necessarily you you've got to respect that, don't you?

Hans van der Merwe

Oh, definitely, you gotta be able to really people. So, if you see it start to make them feel uncomfortable and you're just joking around, you gotta get up. I think I hit a little bit of a soft spot down, it stopped. Just don’t pushing it. Some people down had to do that. And that's just who people are. You just gotta try and understand, put yourself in their shoes. If someone said that to you, how would you feel?

Chris Bombolas

Yeah, and you might feel comfortable with it, but you've got to appreciate that they may not. So, it's a really fine area, but it's all about respect each other.

Hans van der Merwe

Very much.

Chris Bombolas

Nadine.

Nadine Forbes

Definitely, further on that, I think it's also, if you see someone else in that situation and they might not be comfortable speaking up, for you to go over and just check in with them and say, hey, what's going on? Or do you need to chat about that? As Hannah said, you will need an ally. Sometimes if it's not the person that you can speak with directly, someone else that you can speak to. And I think there way services out there, life we've got Mates in Construction and things like that. Give them a call if you're not sure about what you can do, if you don't feel comfortable talking to the person directly or your supervisors, there is help outside of your organization as well.

Chris Bombolas

And speaking of mates, we will be hearing from them very very shortly. Let's move to another angle and aspect of work. This is from Tyler and thanks everyone for joining us. If you've got a question quickly, 'cause our panel session is rapidly coming to an end.

This is from Tyler guys. What advice do you have for current apprentices who want to stand out and become apprentice of the year or win awards or shine at their work? It doesn't necessarily mean you need a plaque on the wall or you need a certificate or whatever, but they just wanna excel in what they do. What advice would you give them? Let's start this end this time, Nadine.

Nadine Forbes

Engage, buy into it. There's so many people out there willing to help you. And the more you talk to people, the more you read, watch webinars like this and get involved in anything you can take all opportunities that you're faced with.

Chris Bombolas

Become a sponge.

Nadine Forbes

Yeah, exactly exactly.

Chris Bombolas

Hans.

Hans van der Merwe

I'm not sure, I can't really remember what the question was.

Chris Bombolas

You wanna stand out, you wanna achieve, you wanna be the best apprentice you can, be the best trader you can be. What advice would you give them to someone starting out?

Hans van der Merwe

Ask a lot of questions, just keep asking questions. If opportunity comes your way to go and do any kind of like set free set falls in a lot if someone goes, oh, did you wanna do a set free in this? Don't be scared to say yes, I'll do it, I'll do it, regardless of what.

Chris Bombolas

Hannah.

Hannah Watts

Keep on top of your eProfiling. If you're not understanding something at work like you can't win awards if you're not doing your eProfiling, that's part of your apprenticeship obligations. And there aren't many obligations that you have as an apprentice. So, if you want to stand out, make sure you're doing all the scope of work that you need to require to get your electrical license. Make sure you're putting in your eProfiling and keeping up to date with it and go into sponge mode. Like they've already said, suck up all the information from all the people around you. It might not be the way you do the job, but you've just learned to not the way of how to do something.

Chris Bombolas

Here is one for all three of you as well. Have you come across a workplace with a great safety culture where safety is an absolute priority, and everyone thinks it's important. And if you have, what did that workplace do, to create that positive culture? Encourage it, foster it and maintain it. Hannah, you're first.

Hannah Watts

Oh jee

Chris Bombolas

I know it's a tough question, but you may have come across. You may have worked somewhere. It might be your own work. It might be somewhere that we wanna give them a wrap.

Hannah Watts

So, culture is something that is constantly changing and adapting. If you're working somewhere where you don't have a great safety culture, help change it, make it a better place. If you work somewhere where it's already good, make it a great place. You know like everyday you go into work, open your eyes, look at stuff. Have you missed something when you've walked in.

Chris Bombolas

Hans, have you come across a place that has got high one safety?

Hans van der Merwe

I don't really think such a place really exists. There's no limit to how safe you can be. You can always go that extra step further and be even more safe than what. As long as they have procedures in place that you can follow, go above and beyond, 'cause then you're guaranteed to be safe.

Chris Bombolas

Yeah, Nadine.

Nadine Forbes

Yeah, I've worked with any company where safety is taken very seriously steps the hallways through, from little JSS in our pocket PPEs everywhere. And we're encouraged and encourage you if you wanna feel unsafe to step back and say, how else can we do this safer? We all wanna go home safe.

Chris Bombolas

All right, one final quick tip from each one of you, about safety and about the guys that are just starting, that are in the industry that might be wavering, thinking odd I don't know if I can push through this. What advice would you give them, just quickly just to finish off our panel session.

Hannah Watts

Perseverance is key. If you want about enough, you'll get there. You'll finish your apprenticeship. And you'll be like us sitting on a panel maybe, telling other apprentices how they can go through their apprenticeship and excel in their apprenticeships.

Hans van der Merwe

Best tip would probably be, I don't really know actually.

Chris Bombolas

I'll give you more time to think about it. Nadine you're up. You think about it, Hans, I'm coming back to you.

Nadine Forbes

Yeah, just engage in your apprenticeship and take responsibility for yourself. Whether it be your learning, your safety, everything. Ask more questions, take responsibility.

Chris Bombolas

Ask more questions, take care, don't take shortcuts.

Nadine Forbes

Engage.

Chris Bombolas

There's a lot of sort of general safety tips, not just electrical, it's about life, isn't it? What are you got, come on one word of wisdom.

Hans van der Merwe

I had some in my head.

Chris Bombolas

And you lost them.

Hans van der Merwe

Oh, I just completely lost them.

Chris Bombolas

Oh, can't believe it. Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate these guys taking time out of their work and coming to join us. And we wish Hannah, Nadine and Hans all the best in your careers. Very safe and prosperous careers, guys. Thanks for joining us. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the next segment, because we're now going to catch up with Mates in Construction. Chief Executive Officer for Mates in Construction is John Brady. John has been with Mates in Construction since 2008 and helped develop the national award winning Mates in Construction program in suicide prevention. John, strongly believes that suicide is a preventable problem. Particularly if we can get mates helping mates. This presentation discusses suicide, which some people might find disturbing. If you or someone you know is struggling, we will have some slides up shortly where you can get help and support. So, I'd like to welcome John. Thanks for joining us, John.

John Brady

Thanks Chris, and thanks apprentices. That was fantastic stuff. Welcome wherever you happen to be watching from, it's fantastic to be with you this morning. My name's John Brady and I'm from Mates in Construction.

Some of you will have already come across us, onsite or in your colleges. Some of you maybe not, but if you work in construction or in mining or in energy, you're already entitled to our support and help. And so, what I want to do in this next little piece of time is to let you know who we are, what our approach is and how you can use that approach to help yourself, and more importantly to help the mates around you. And I can tell you now that when you learn those skills, they're not just work skills they're life skills.

You can learn at work, how to help someone who's struggling. And you can take that to your church or to your football club or to your neighborhood or to your mates. And you become a really powerful tool in your own circle. So, let's get started. So, what is the mates program?

We started in 2006 after the Australian Institute of Suicide Research and Prevention, did a longitudinal study into suicides in the Queensland construction industry, and the results were fairly shocking. And when we talk of young workers, what we found was that young workers in our industry are two and a half times, the national average in terms of suicide.

If you wanna know what that means practically, is we lose about 30 workers a year to a death on site from an accident. If you're were under 25 and you work in our industry, you're 10 times more likely to die of suicide than in next work.

So, that was fairly sobering. And we had to look and say, okay, what do we need to do? The first thing we looked at was what wasn't working. If you're in the big end of town where you've got ABIs and tier ones. They had free AP services, employee assistance programs for all their workers. But really tiny percentage took it out. And when you move out out of the big end of town into some of the smaller tiers, what we found is that there was a culture of not asking for help, particularly around their mental health, because it was seen as a weakness.

So, we looked in and flipped it and said, so what was working then? We mightn't have been real good at looking after ourselves, but I'll tell you what, we would do anything for our mate. Our strength wasn't asking for help, our strength was offering help. And so, that become the mates way, we decided not to target the person who is doing it tough, but everybody they worked with. And so, we went onto sites and started to say, we can guarantee that someone in your team is gonna struggle this year. We know the stats. And I must probably want to ask for help. So, you have to identify them, and you have to say, you don't look right and I'll talk a little bit more that in a minute, is it working?

We know now since 2009, we've been able to drop the suicide rates in Queensland construction by over 11%. Now is that enough? Now we're still losing good people.

Aftermath of a suicide, the coulda woulda shooters that doesn't leave you. It's not a normal grief. It's not a grief like after a car accident, when you can say that was the fault. Often the grief after a suicide is terrible. So, any suicide is a tragedy, but we are unique just recently, we were listed on the World Health Organization's website as the world's best practice in workplace suicide prevention. And it's not what mates are doing, but it's what people like you are doing on site, in your company, with your friends, that's what's working. And that's what we wanna continue to keep working 'cause it's actually saving lives.

So, what about the young apprentices? Some of you would have been part of our Speak Up Be Heard research we did, the report came out in February last year, just before we started all the COVID protocols. And there was some really interesting stats on it. 80% of people are doing really well in their apprenticeship. They love it, they're being cared for, they're being taught that growing up in the industry in a healthy and wholesome way. And that's fantastic.

And I hope as I'm talking to you, you are one of them. The 27.3% experienced bullying in the last 12 months and 20% of them, the bullying wasn't just a bit more than banter, it was severe bullying.

So much so that 30% of apprentices in the previous 12 months thought that ending their life was a solution to dealing with that bullying. Both bullying and suicidal thoughts were higher amongst female apprentices. And those who identified as LGBTI. Clearly that is not satisfactory. No it's against the law to arrest and bully, but it has a major impact on people's mental health, on their families and on the productivity they're in workplaces. So, if we look at suicide, why did people choose suicide?

Suicide is a solution to emotional pain, the pain of a broken leg and the pain of a broken heart. They live in the same place in the brain. And if we've been around long enough, we know that emotions come and go. But when you're in the thick of it, that pain can be unbearable and suicide pops up as an option to get rid of the pain. What are the triggers?

Well, we know from the research that for apprentices, 72% of those who took their own life, the trigger was a relationship breakup. Now I don't know what it's like for women when they break up in a relationship. But I know for myself and some of my sons that when we've had breakups, it has been horrible. And I know that my mates, their solution was well, let's get into the pub and we'll find you another one.

And I think Sandra Allen said, There's plenty of fish in the ocean. When you're in the middle of that emotional turmoil, that's not helpful. We need to be able to say to one another look, hey, you're traveling with this. This is tough stuff that really knocks us around. And I'm certain that knocks women around the sames that knocks men around. That bullying is a trigger, because bullying can be overwhelming and the power imbalance can be terrible. And it actually really makes it difficult for the find a why out. Finances, finances can be difficult. Bascue, put a report out not so long ago that said that in construction 80% of us live paycheck to paycheck.

And we're in an industry that has occupational redundancy. That means we work project to project. In good times we learn our projects that we have continuous work, but when we're in times where that doesn't happen, and if we had not in control of our finances, then things can really mount up. My boy's solution is to move home, but eventually you got to leave home.

So, get on top of your finances. And mental illness, mental illness gets thrown around in all sorts of life, but it's actually quite a broad spectrum. We all have mental health and we all go through periods of poor mental health, in the same way that we all have physical health. And sometimes we go through periods of poor physical health. Poor physical health and poor mental health can lead to mental illness or physical illness. And if your mental health gets so bad that we go into clinical depression or bipolar or whatever, then that can be a really difficult thing to deal with.

Also, when we go on sites, we often say to people, how many people have been touched by suicide? And we ask them to show their hands. I cannot think of one site in the thousands of sites I have visited, where they've been less than 50% of the hands go up. And sometimes people can put up both hands and their feet. We know that when you lose a mate to suicide or a family member, your risk profile goes up by 40%. That's why it's so important that we wrap around people. The old way was not to talk, that doesn't help us. It's actually to be able to say to people, hey, you're gone. What's going on for you here and keeping an eye on one another.

So, what do we need to do? Well, the first thing is do something, doing nothing doesn't work, do something, whatever that little something is, do something. There's a little bit of a dichotomy here around seeking help and offering help. Often you hear campaigns like it's not weak to speak. And we know in our industries that the culture of seeking help is not high.

There is evidence that some of you younger people are actually seeking help these days, but anyone can offer help. At mates we often say, when I ring for a mate, the phone is like a feather. When I ring for myself, the phone is like a brick. So, we know that offering help works. Here more to know when someone's struggling, some really simple things.

Sometimes you can see someone struggling. You can see by the way they carry themselves, you can see that they're distracted from their work, which of course is a safety issue. You can see that they're coming in, looking a bit dusty or teary. Sometimes it's the words that they say, It's a red flag for me. If I ever hear someone say, you'd be better off without me. That sense of burden, or I can't take it anymore. Or I just to get outta here. I'm gonna hear that a lot on a Friday afternoon. But when I'm here on a Tuesday, what's going on? Sometimes you might know stuff. You might know there's been a relationship breakup. You might know someone's being bullied on site. You might know that there's been a grief in the family. You might know that the job's coming to an end. And the last one is you just have a gut feeling, a sense that something's not right.

One of my sons lives in London, my oldest son has been over there for 13 years, and I really miss him. But the last Sunday of every month, he rings. Now I really look forward to it, I love chatting to him. Every now and then my wife, Linda will go. I think we should ring Josh, and I'll go, what for? She says, "I think something's wrong." And I'll go, "If something's wrong he will ring us." And she rings and something's wrong. How does she know? He's 12,000 miles away.

So, our intuition has nothing to do with geography or cognition. Our intuition is just stuff we know. We can go into a space and we know it's not safe. We don't know why it's not safe, we have a gut feeling. We know that about our mates and the people we work with. We don't know why they're not right. We just sense that they're not right. And you trust that because you're probably right.

And all I say is, take 10 seconds of courage. You don't need a whole week at courage. You don't even need an hour of courage. Not even a minute of courage, 10 seconds to say, Mate, you don't seem right. Or, hey, you're traveling. I just see you seem to be kicking the dirt a bit. Or I feel in my gut that something's not right. If your mate, is there anything I can do to help. That conversation is lifesaving. So, how can you help?

We use the term solidarity, not sympathy, to stand next to someone and say, mate, on my shift you're not going on that. Is a very very powerful symbol. It's not your job to fix them now, fix themselves. All that go to clinicians, your job is to be with them side by side. I don't have a tattoo, but if I had one, this is what it would say. Seek first to understand before being understood. Everybody's story is so unique, who will listen for that uniqueness?

One of the most powerful things you can ever say to someone is not how are you feeling? But what's your story. And then shut up and listen. Connect them to help. There are a lot of help lines I’ve never seen one jumped down and say, hey how are you going, ever. Help lines don't save people, people save people, you ring on your phone and then you give it to them and say, you speak and I'll wait.

Check in on them. People don't want you to constantly go to them saying are you ok, are you ok 'cause that makes them feel like a freak. What they want to do is feel normal again. I walk on the sites and blokes would just giving me a wink and telling me I'm doing okay. That's all it is, just checking and say, doing all right? Good.

Encourage them, one of the best signs I've ever heard is you have already survived a hundred percent of your worst days. You're resilient. If you're survived a hundred percent of your worst days, I have confidence that you're gonna get through this.

Be confidential, sites, they can be havens for gossip and a whole lot of other. If someone tells you something, be confidential about it.

And debrief, debrief with someone. One of the guys I work with as a plumber and he had a fairly crass term, but it was really useful. He said, when I go to work, some days are working shit. And if I don't wash it off, I go home and I get to spread it all around the house and the family.

Some days we work in very stressful situations. And if we don't talk to someone, we'll go home and spread that stress amongst the family.

Mates in Construction is someone you can talk to, even just a mate. And I guess the message I have, and it feeds into exactly what the apprentices were saying, do not be a bystander, do not see someone's struggling and do nothing about it, do something.

Where's the help. That's the Mates in Construction, help line in 24/7. I want you to take your phone out, and I want you to put that in now. Put it under help or mates. And there are lots of others. Can I just mention the ETU often as an apprentice, you don't have any power. Your power will come from being part of a collective. There's a lot of fantastic bosses there, but they're also some grubs. Use the union to support you as a collective, regardless of what your political views are.

There's a whole range of numbers there. And I'll make certain that I put up family and friends and trusted work colleagues. There's lots of help out there. Make certain you get it.

And wish you well on your apprenticeship. I'm certain you'll do well. And what we're about now with the new generation is we're changing the culture of this industry. A culture that is better, better for women, better for the diverse population we come in, and better for everybody who's gonna be part of it. Thank you very much.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks to John and his organization, Mates in Construction who do a great job. There were some great messages to take home from that. I hope you do. John put up a few numbers for those who might be having some issues, but for us, the ESO, if you have a friend, a family member, a colleague, a mate, that has a lot on their plate, there are ways you can support them as John has mentioned.

On the screen, we have listed some different organizations for someone who might be going through a tough time. I urge you to have a look at those numbers. And if you or someone close to you is in need. As John said, don't be a bystander. Provide them with that contact detail or use it yourself.

As we draw to a close I'd like to thank you for joining us for the first of many events that we have planned for electrical safety week. I wanna say a special thanks to our former apprentices who have now obviously progressed into a full-time workers and tradies to Hans, Nadine and to Hannah, thank you for joining us, we appreciate your input.

There's plenty of other free events this week, and it's not too late to register. So, visit eso.qld.gov.au, or the ESO Facebook page. Now winners of today's $100 trade equipment vouchers will be contacted directly and congratulations to them. And we thank them, especially for joining us.

There's another five, $100 trade equipment vouchers up for grabs as part of our Facebook competition, that tests your electrical knowledge. So, you better get in quick as it ends on Friday.

We would also love to hear your thoughts on some of the topics we have discussed today. We will send you a survey following today's webinar for you to complete. Completed entries we'll go into the draw to win, we're being generous here at ESO.

There's another draw to win a $200 trade equipment gift voucher, it's that simple. So, give us your feedback.

Today's webinar was recorded and will be available to watch and share with your friends or colleagues that may have missed out. It's available at eso.qld.gov.au. That's where you'll find a whole heap of other resources and information on electrical safety.

Keep your eye out for an email from us over the next few days to complete a feedback survey about today's event.

We really value your feedback. It's how we fine tune events like these, for events into the future.

So, if you could spare us just two minutes, we would really appreciate that. Once again, thank you for joining us.

I leave you with a couple of important messages that were said today, and that probably need to be reinforced over and over again.

Mates help mate, speak up, ask questions, work safe, home safe.

[End of Transcript]

Electrical safety in rental properties

Chris Bombolas

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to The Electrical Safety in Rental Properties webinar brought to you by The Electrical Safety Office. I'm Chris Bombolas from The Office of Industrial Relations. And I'm your host for this morning's proceedings.

Can I firstly acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on the land on which we meet and Elders past, present and emerging. We're celebrating Electricity Safety Week this week with a range of free events and prizes.

So thanks for joining us here today. There's a range of legal responsibilities that landlords and property managers have to ensure their rental property is electrically safe whether that's a house, unit, duplex, granny flat, shed or townhouse.

And today you're going to hear all about them from our line-up of experts. Throughout today's session, there is an opportunity to ask our speakers questions, just type them into the live Q&A box on the right of your screen. And we will get to them during the panel session at the end of proceedings.

If you have any technical problems during the live stream, please make sure the sound on your computer is turned on. Try refreshing your browser and if that doesn't work, contact us via the live Q&A chat box.

To officially kick start today's event, it's good morning to Donna Heelan, Executive Director of The Electrical Safety Office. Welcome Donna.

Donna Heelan

Thanks Chris. Good morning, everyone. Thank you very much for joining us here today on this very important topic. Queensland's got about half a million rental properties at the given time. And if you think that through, that's a lot of families, that's a lot of people that landlords and real estates have duties to ensure that they're kept safe every single day.

But more on that later, I want you to think about and take action on five things today when you walk away, just five things to think about and five things that you can talk to your landlord, talk to your real estate, or talk to the person in charge of your property that may be yourself and make sure you've got these things covered.

Have you got safety switches, safety switches on all circuits? The last two rental fatalities we have had have been in relation to items that did not have safety switches on those circuits.

Have you got a safety switch on your oven? Have you got a safety switch on your air conditioning unit? Have you got a safety switch on your hot water system?

If your property is an old dwelling, the answer to those questions usually will be no, particularly if it hasn't been renovated or sold in recent times.

So that's number one, number two, who tests your safety switches on your rental properties? Having them on all circuits is great and something that The Electrical Safety Office is a strong advocate for, but you need to check they work.

Don't assume that your landlord is checking them. And don't assume that your tenant is checking them. You need to ask the question and put a system in place to make sure these are checked on a regular basis.

Number three, do you have an electrical equipment maintenance system or schedule in place? Do you have a licensed person come to your premises and make sure that you have got your old electrical equipment supplied, maintained and inspected, things like air conditioners that I've spoken about, hot water systems. If these aren't maintained and installed correctly, they can pose a deadly threat to those people that are renting your premises.

Number four, I know COVID has changed the way in which we live and work. And many of us now are buying things online, but if you're buying electrical equipment online, I urge you to have a look and do some research about where that equipment is coming for.

Have a look for the RCM. I know in government, we talk frequently in acronyms, but I know Michael Thompson always speaking about the Regulatory Compliance Mark later today. Make sure you know where that equipment's coming from. Has it been designed for Australian standards? Has it been designed to make sure that the people using it are safe?

The fifth one is what is your system in place if your tenant reports a tap tingle? That's a bit hard to say, but a shock from a tingle sorry, a shock or tingle from a tap or other metal appliance. Please don't make a note on the property inspection report and file it away. Don't email it to the person that owns the property and don't make a note and book an electrical contractor to come and have a look at it at their next inspection in 2, 3, 4 weeks time. Tingles from taps can be a warning sign. And I know Aaron will speak about this, but it can cause very serious injury or death. And we have had a fatality in Queensland where that has been the case sadly.

Remember, always use the licensed electrical contractor for doing any electrical work in your premises and make sure that your tenants or you don't DIY electrical work. My final tidbit or tip for the day is go to our website. As the regulator, we're here to enforce and comply the electrical regulations in Queensland, but we're also here to provide information and assistance like today. We have a wealth of information available to you. If you go to our website or call our 1-300 number, we are always happy to help on these important topics.

Thanks again for joining us today. I hope you have a great weekend. Cheers.

Chris Bombolas

Yeah. Thanks to Donna for joining us. Donna, I've got this down to because we love catchy phrases and summarizing things to the big five: safety switches, checking the safety switches, your maintenance schedule, your RCM of equipment and you tingle response.

That's pretty easy if you want to go through them again. Safety switches, checking them, maintenance schedule, RCM of equipment and tingle response. All right, let's move a tack now.

And I'd like to welcome in Michael Thompson, Principal Programs Officer OIR, who will talk about how to keep your rental property electrically safe. Now, Michael has been a licensed electrician for more than 25 years. He has experience in domestic, large commercial and industrial fields of electrical, of the electrical industry, and he's worked for the ESO for four years. Welcome Michael. Thanks for joining us.

Michael Thompson

Thanks for that, Chris. Thanks for everyone today for joining us on the webinar. It's a very important topic that we feel needs to be talked about more, so thanks for joining us and coming on board today.

So first slide, it's safety switches. It's something that we very passionate about at the ESO. Safety switches that protects you from electric shock people, not equipment. So what are safety switches? So basically they have a test button on them. They cut the power off in a very short minimum amount of time to make sure that you don't receive a humongous shock and go into fibrillation of the heart. So domestic rental properties must have a safety switch to fit it to power points as a minimum.

At the ESO, we say, all circuits should be protected by safety switch, even retrofitting. We would like it that way. It's the best way to guarantee safety across the board in your home or your rental properties. The Australian standards, electric wiring rules, they actually say all the new work needs to be safety switches fitted to all new circuits, but for retrofitting it's a new requirement, but we do recommend that you do that with on your homes to make sure that you protect not only your family and your own homes, but also your tenants as well. The last thing you want to hear is get a phone call and say that tenants received a shock at your home, and hopefully not the worst outcome from that as well.

So, there's several different types of safety switches. They all vary in shapes, looks and design. As you see on the screen, there there's a few different types. So you've got a single power, which is the one on the far left, the dual power, see just how much space it takes up. And that will have different sort of looking buttons and different locations. You can see a couple of orange ones there in half circles and one in a square and the white one and the blue one on the top right.

So that top right image sort of shows that the difference between the circuit breakers and the safety switch. You see circuit breakers, they don't have that actual test button. So that's important to look for to see if you do have safety switches. A circuit breaker only protects equipment. It does not protect people. So it will stop equipment from catching fire to a degree or circuits within your home, but it will not stop someone being receiving an electric shock or possibly being electrocuted. So testing safety switches. So this is very important to make sure that they actually still work and are operational. So that should be done at regular intervals. So tenants should be really doing the push button test. It'd be three months. So that's just a matter of being prepared that the power is going to go off to those power circuits that are protected by. And push the button, make sure that it activates, turns the power off for the circuit set to protect, which will be listed underneath it. Most of the time, it's more in mental properties, unless it's a new premises that would be the power only. And, then just turn it back on. So that's basically to make sure that it works and what we should do, but operation and time tests should be done by electrical contractors.

Now we do recommend that landlords and real estate agents arrange this as well. So what we do is what we suggest is that you do the same time, just as smoke alarm testing. It's bang for your buck. You know, you're getting them at the same time. It's gonna be a lot cheaper than getting them out separately and they can do that, that safety switch test. And basically they make sure that it's operating within the set times and parameters that it should. And for the leakage of current or electricity that's putting out with it should so. You need to really do that to make sure that they are operating the way they are intended to and designed to. But yeah, get it done at the same time. You know, it's bang for your buck and most companies or electrical contractors that are doing smoke alarm testing can do the safety switch testing as well.

Tingles or shocks from metal fittings. A tingle is from electric, from a tap or a metal fitting within your home is actually a shock. So don't ignore it. You know, there have been several fatalities around this. You need to contact your electricity entity, but Aaron Smith from Ergon Energy's will be talking more about that a bit later. So I'll leave that to him. He is the expert.

And this is more about the permanent appliances. So air conditioners, light fittings, hot water systems. It can be along the same lines of what I just spoke about. But if you do, if your tenants actually has advised that they've received a shock from an item, you need to tell them to stop using it immediately.

And if you're the tenant, stop it, just put it aside. Don't touch it. And contact a licensed electrician to come and have a look and inspect and test equipment. There might be something wrong internally with it, and you don't want to take the risk that it could turn a lot worse. And advise the other people within the home, too. It's the best way to do it.

Do-it-yourself electrical work. Now this is something that is we sternly, like I said like cancer, it's not illegal, but it's dangerous and most likely will void your insurance. It can only be performed by a licensed electrical contractor. So, you know, re-wiring houses or anything like that. Unfortunately we do see it still out there these days. We don't look favorably on it.

And it's one of our focus areas where we will take necessary action as people there are performing this work because it is very dangerous, not only for themselves, but for anyone around them and their loved ones and family or tenants or even the landlords, if you're a tenant you're doing this work yourself. So be aware that it is illegal, we will find you, and it won't be a good outcome. But it's important to check also as well, when you do hire or engage an electrical contractor that you do check they're licensed, their license is relevant and current. And unfortunately there are people that pose as electricians as well. So you can go to the website for that, the ESO website, and do that check.

Electrical equipment maintenance. So as a landlord, you have an obligation to maintain any equipment or appliances that you supply. So any equipment within the home, you need to make sure that it's safe and electrically safe for the use. Excuse me. So the best way to do that, it's actually a maintenance schedule for the property and process for electrical repairs.

So that might be a guideline to actually tell your tenant how to report faults, and then what the process will be around that. That way everyone knows what's going on and there's a quick process around getting an electrical contractor there to have a look or do the maintenance schedule, if there's any issues with any equipment quicker the better, really when you've got a fault with an equipment, because you don't want to leave it sitting there, especially if it's not turned off and basically it's been dangerous. But once again, always use a licensed electrical contractor, have them set up, have a process around it. And that way it all works and flows without too much drama.

Portable electrical equipment. So what it means by "portable"? It is your plug-in equipment. So anything that you supply, excuse me, which is not, it can't be within fully furnished terms of your rental property or your tenancy is fully furnished. And this may be the case with plug-in equipment and supply for use by all the tenants. Make sure that if you buy any appliances that it has a Regulatory Compliance Mark, the RCM. So that's that big tick and the triangle.

So that means it's compliant with Australian standards and safe for use, avoid buying from equipment from overseas, from the Internet. It may not comply with Australian standards. Seen it happen many times before. And if it's actually fixed equipment, a lot of electricians will not install it as well because it doesn't comply. So if you do import it as well, it actually falls into a whole other category of importer responsibilities and duties as well. So it's best to avoid it because if you start importing categorized as importing goods, then you have a lot more duties fall upon you, which you might not be meeting. And only use the equipment for what it's designed for.

So tenants should follow the manufacturer's instructions for cleaning and maintenance. Don't has it damp, stuff like that, unless it's meant to be, and always check before using. This is probably a key point to this whole conversation. It's always check your equipment for use, the cases, the leads, the plugs. So many times we're seeing electric shocks from damaged cables. So they might have exposed leads with inside or exposed cables and people are getting shocks from it. So you need to make sure that they're safe prior to use every time, not just once every four years, when you think it's not working properly. Every time before you use it, is best policy.

Solar systems. Sort of along the same lines, so they must be regularly checked and maintained. Have a maintenance schedule for the system, which really should be supplied anyhow. It's a requirement that the installer supplies that for you and check, basically it's to check the system performance and safety. So the, always hear someone who knows what they're doing, a licensed electrical contractor or electrician they'll come in and check to make sure it's safe and performing the way it should be. You won't get the most out of them. I like to use the analogy of a car, so you're happy to spend 10 grand on a car, but you get it serviced and checked regularly, but you'll spend the same amount of money on a solar system and you won't do the same thing. You just put it on the roof in a harsh environment. It'll stay up there for many years before it even gets looked at and it will start to degrade. So you need to make sure that you get it checked regularly usually about every year. But the maintenance schedule will say that. So there's certain components that need to be done quicker than others, and also claims. So they get the best performance out of it. As I said, always use a licensed electrician for that. It can be dangerous up on the roof and they know what they're doing, and they know how to fix things and work around that sort of stuff. You know, solar panels are always alive when the Sun's shining. So just remember that.

On that sort of same vein, roof spaces. There are dangerous area with hidden hazards. So I always make sure you turn the power off before anyone enters and that's anyone yourself, if yourself, if you're a tenant, if you're a landlord or any tradesman and going up there, many incidents up there, many dangers, some of the old houses have exposed cabling, exposed parts of live components with electricity flowing through them. So make sure that you turn off the main switch. Remember this the main switch and the hot water switch. The hot water switches are separate. So they have separate circuits, but always be aware that if you've got an overhead incoming power, there's a live cable always in there, no matter what you do, because it runs down to the house from the power lines. So you need to turn the power from the stage and just prepare your tenants if you need to turn off to do some work at the home.

And also I would advise any landlords out there to do some recall checks. I should've mentioned that for the equipment as well. Always make sure that you keep on the, on the recalls for equipment and also the cables. So there was a raft of electrical cables sold a few years ago and now called Infinity. And they are recalled, so I needed to make sure that the house wasn't full of that because they are dangerous.

Once again, overhead and underground power lines. Always make sure you, be aware of the overhead power lines into your house and the undergrounds that supply electricity house that if we dig them up, we'll hit them. There are a lot of contacts with that sort of stuff.

Contact Dial Before You Dig and obviously underground so you know where they are. And think ahead when planting trees and gardens. You aren't be planting a tree that grows 40 foot high, right under your power lines or your incoming main. So have a think about that and just be aware of it. The purchase and sale of property, say, if you are buying a house, you'll see that they have the checklist that, if a safety switch's installed, if it's not, within three months of the date of possession, you must actually install one if you're buying a house that doesn't have one. So just be aware of that, always check it. And you know, maybe when asked to put one in to clinch the deal.

So, but as we said, we suggest upgrading your switchboards and having all circuits covered by safety switches, just to be safe. And reporting issues to ESO. So we are very interested in unsafe and dangerous wiring or equipment.

So, if you see anything like that, please contact us. Unlicensed work, So anything that you feel that has been done by maybe someone who is not competent or licensed to do that work, any shocks or dangerous events or incidents where definitely shouldn't have lots of stuff. And it's not with the shocks and dangers, it's not about finding a culprit, but it's about us investigating and seeing what the cause was to make sure it doesn't happen again because that's our main concern. Our main mandate is to make sure the community and industry is safe from electricity.

So it was a quick roll through, but any more information that you may need please con visit the website or call that number. And we're also on Facebook as well. We do a lot of stuff on Facebook. So please click on it, join, follow, like, and we'll go from there. Thank you very much.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks, Michael. Some great advice and practical tips. Really appreciate that. And of course, if I can take it one step further that perhaps another tip that you, you didn't touch on that might be handy for landlords or real estate agencies, perhaps to encourage the tenants, to test their safety switches when their rates bill or water bill comes in because that's every quarter, every three months could get into a nice handy system of just checking that every time. So that's not a bad little tip.

And if you'd like to ask Michael some questions a little later on when we moved to the panel session or any of our speakers that are coming up, please do that via the Q&A box.

It's now time to move to Assistant Workplace Health and Safety Prosecutor, David Gore, who's going to run through the electrical safety legal responsibilities for rental properties. David is a barrister with 10 years’ experience in government practice and a specialist in criminal and regulatory prosecutions with extensive trial advocacy experience. Welcome David.

David Gore

Thank you very much, Chris. I'll be talking about electrical safety in rental properties from a legal perspective. The principal piece of legislation is The Electrical Safety Act of 2002. This imposes legal duties in respect of the electrical safety on both landlords and tenants and others at rental properties.

The legal duties of persons conducting businesses are undertaking often referred to as PCB use and corporate offices of PCB use is beyond the scope of my presentation.

The first takeaway from my presentation today is that the person's in control of electrical equipment at rental properties is the landlord, the Act says so. One might not unreasonably think that the person, best placed to monitor and force the safety of electrical equipment, might be the occupier of the premises, namely the tenant. That's certainly the position that the parliament took in respect of commercial, non-residential rental properties, but it's not the case in respect of residential tenancies.

The duties remain on the the landlord and they cannot be contracted out of. In the case of a commercial lease, the owner of the premises is not the person in control of the equipment, the occupier is, and that person can contract with another person, whether it's an agency or an electrical contractor, to be responsible for the electrical safety of the equipment at the premises, but that can't be done in the case of residential tenancies. I'll talk later about a particular aspect of tenant's duties that informs that there is some mechanism there to improve the amount of control or the level of control that a landlord will have over the equipment. But that's the first thing to note.

The duty is to ensure the safety of electrical equipment at the property. It's not to all equipment to the equipment that both forms part of or is supplied for you at the premises and is owned by the landlord. So perhaps obviously, if a tenant was to purchase an electric heater, plug it into the wall and it caused problems or create a risk of death or injury, that is something that the landlord is not going to be legally responsible for. But if the tenant purchased that same heater provided it to the tenant for use at the premises and retain ownership of it, the landlord would remain, would be legally responsible for the safety of that equipment.

Some examples of equipment that would ordinarily be the responsibility of the landlord. I think Michael talked about some of these more fixed or permanent fixtures earlier, but they would include quite clearly light switches and fittings, power points, fixed appliances things that would usually be fixtures upon the sale of the property, ovens, cook tops, air conditioners, pool pumps, things that would usually stay with the property upon sale, and of course, electrical cables and wiring in the roof space and wall cavities.

What does ensuring safety require? Well, the Act says that safety is ensured when the risk of death, injury or property damage arising from the equipment in respect of electricity has both, if it's reasonably practicable to eliminate the risk and it's been eliminated, or if it's not reasonably practicable to eliminate the risk that it has been minimized so far as is reasonably practicable. Now, the Act provides a definition of what is reasonably practicable and it talks about the duty to do all that is reasonably able to be done. It sets out some considerations that a court would look at in taking into account in a particular case, whether what was done or not done was reasonably practicable. It requires a consideration of the likelihood of the risk occurring, requires a consideration of the degree of harm that the risk might result in. This is often considered to be the magnitude of the risk, those elements combined.

What is the magnitude of the risk? I hasten to say that in the case of electricity, you're almost always dealing with a potential risk of death or serious injury. It requires consideration of what was known about the risk, in this case, what was known by the landlord, but not only what was subjectively known, but also what ought reasonably to have been known by the landlords that will be assessed objectively as I said, which will require a consideration of what a reasonable landlord and the circumstances would have known or should have known. It also requires a consideration of the availability and suitability of ways of minimizing or eliminating the risk. Now, in the case of electricity, it's, once again, almost always going to be the engagement of the licensed electrical contractor. That will usually be the only thing besides not touching certain equipment that a landlord could do. Some other comments about this question of reasonable practicability. It really obliges what I've said in the slides there, a proactive, responsive and systematic risk management approach akin to that adopted by industry.

Proactive is in the sense that a landlord can't just be waiting for the tenant to call to say that there's an issue. There should be regular inspections. How regular, I'd have to defer to one of the other panel members, but it would depend on the circumstances.

Responsive meaning if you are advised or otherwise become aware of an issue to do with electrical equipment at the property, you must be responsive. How responsible, how quickly you would need to respond will depend on the circumstances.

Now, Donna at the start touched on this, but if you're aware of a potential risk to do with electrical equipment, if I would say in most cases, that will require immediate action. So that would, it makes of course in the circumstance or in certain cases would require the tenant to avoid touching certain properties, avoid entering certain rooms of the property until a contractor has attended. Now, if you've got something that's central to a property, for instance, an oven and it's sparking, or you can smell smoke coming from or something like that, and you've got children in the house, arranging a contractor to come out the following week would not be sufficient.

If someone was injured or killed in the circumstances, there would likely be a breach of the duty. You would have to arrange for someone to attend immediately. I would've thought, within hours, I've said there look practically, at least this requires landlords to ensure that is if one wishes to avoid liability for a criminal offense under the Act that you have all existing electrical equipment inspected, purchasing periodically as appropriate and all new electrical work is carried out by a licensed electrical contractor. I've underlined in the slide.

It's the main thrust of my presentation. It's certainly picked up by the other presenters. Licensed electrical contractors is the way around, certainly discharging your duties under the Act. The, I've noted in the dot point of the bottom common sense about bringing to bear a little common sense in the management of ordinary household hazards. That really, really goes to that point, that I've stated if there appears to be a problem, you have the reason to suspect there was an issue, whether it's because your tenant has reported it or you've observed it yourself upon an inspection. Really isolating people or quarantining people from that hazard will often be the best measure you can take immediately.

And then the engagement of a licensed electrical contractor will in effect, operate as a defacto indemnity for the landlord in terms of any possible criminal liability under the Act. In nine times out of 10, if I caught hearing a case in which a person has been injured or killed, he is the owner in a prompt way, got on to an electrical contractor and arrange for that attendance. If the work is done, if something's missed by that contractor, if the work that they do do is somehow negligently done, that will usually not flow back to the owner.

The engagement with that specialist contractor will be all that they, that the law can reasonably expect a landlord to do. Tenants and others. So any person at a rental property. And that's the point here, it's that any person at a rental property, whether they're tenants or otherwise, have duties under the Act. They've got the duty here, the first dot point, take reasonable care for others, as well as their own safety and respect of that equipment. This will certainly include doing intentional things, such as performing their own unlicensed electrical work at the property. That's certainly prohibited. Besides being a specific offense for carrying out electrical work, it's also a failure to take reasonable care for your own and other's safety. It will certainly include things like stealing electricity, which has happened in the past, trying to divert cables from one area of the property to avoid paying for that. But then this point that I referred to earlier is there's also a duty to comply with any reasonable instruction in respect of the equipment at the property by the landlord, to allow the landlord to comply with their duties.

So this goes back to the point I made at the start that landlords are at a disadvantage in a sense, because they're not the persons who are present at the property on a day-to-day basis usually. Sometimes they'll go years without actually setting foot on the premises. So they're relying on tenants and in some cases, the real estate agents they might've engaged to manage the property, to report back to them what the status of electrical safety is at the premises. This is a power which I would encourage landlords to use as appropriate to ensure that they have appropriate access to the equipment so that they can discharge their duties. This would involve, for instance, if electrical equipment is due for an inspection, you would advise the tenant that they need to make access access to the property available a certain time for a contractor to attend.

And if there's a failure to comply or to permit that access, if it became, it got to the point that there was a deadlock, yes, the tenant may be liable for a criminal offense for failing to permit that access. But of course in the interim, you might, an interim step might be to contact The Electrical Safety Office, to see what can be done to facilitate that access.

Finally, it is a criminal offense to breach a duty imposed by the Act. There are substantial penalties. They're identical in terms of the maximum penalties to that provided under mainstream work health and safety laws, in the case of an individual owner or tenant to maximum penalty of up to $150,000 that doubles in the case of an individual owner in business or a corporate officer or a person in business, or in the case of corporate owners, it's $1.5 million.

Those maximums double, where they can be recklessness proved on the part of the defendant. And in the case of individuals, you're liable to five years imprisonment if you're reckless with respect to electrical safety in premises.

Thank you very much for listening today. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks to David for informing us of the legal obligations. I think I take from that landlords be warned that shortcuts, stalling, putting off, doing shortcuts, doing the wrong thing, you may find yourself sitting across the dock from David and I don't think that'd be a pleasant thing to happen. So just be warned.

Okay. Yeah. If you do have questions for David, don't forget the Q&A panel. We welcome your questions and we'll be going to a panel session with all of our presenters at the end of this session.

It's time now to introduce Gordon Hemphrey, who is the Acting Superintendent of Investigations and Compliance at Queensland Fire and Emergency Services. Gordon will walk us through the new interconnected smoke alarm laws for residential rental properties. Gordon has got 32 years of experience as a firefighter with QFES. He's a qualified fire investigator for 21 years. He oversees post-fire investigations and management of compliance and prosecutions of building owners and occupiers that fail to comply with building fire safety regulations. Welcome Gordon. Thanks for joining us. We look forward to your presentation.

Gordon Hemphrey

Thanks, Chris. And welcome to everybody who's joined us this morning. Domestic smoke alarm legislation in rental properties is what we're going to have a quick look at this morning.

In 2016, the Queensland government legislated that all smoke alarms within Queensland and now are going to have to change over on a 10-year process into interconnected smoke alarms. The idea is that they provide better protection for the occupants of the buildings that you'll be able to hear that smoke alarm activate quickly, efficiently, and you'll be able to get out of that property well before it becomes untenable, and your life would become at risk.

So what we're going to look at this morning though is specifically rental properties because in that 10-year process of introduction of that legislation, rental properties do become compliant and must be compliant from January 2022.

So from 2022 onwards, if you are in a rental property, if you own a rental property, that property must then start to comply with the smoke alarm legislation. The changes that we're going to be looking at, or that are becoming part of that compliance are that smoke alarms need to be interconnected as we can see. They also must be photoelectric. At the moment, you get ionization and photoelectrics that you can use, and from 2022 onwards for rentals they must be photoelectric. We've found that they are more efficient. They activate quicker for smoldering type fires, and they also have less false alarms.

So they're just a better unit to use all around. Those smoke alarms they must be less than 10 years old. Smoke alarms do have a life span. After 10 years, they start to reach the end of their life. So that smoke alarm that is fitted to your property must be less than 10 years old. And they must be in any rental property as is always has been, and will continue. They must be operational at all times. So that means not taking the battery out of any battery operated ones. And the big change that is coming through as we're looking at, is that we're going to interconnect the smoke alarms, whereas before if a smoke alarm activated in the kitchen and you had another one downstairs, may be in your family room, only the one in the kitchen would activate.

From now on, in from 2022 onwards, if one activates, they must all activate together. The idea of that is to make sure that everyone in that building upstairs, downstairs and out the back of the property in the outlying areas of the building perhaps, that all alarms activate so that everyone is notified, even when they've got asleep with a closed door in their bedroom.

And that activates downstairs, the smoke alarm that is in their bedroom will activate as well to ensure that person is made aware that it's time to evacuate the building. Smoke alarms are going to have to be installed on every floor of the building or every story of the building.

So if you've got a two-story building that is a two-story domestic dwelling, they must be installed upstairs and downstairs, which is common now and has been for a while. And that continues onwards.

Another big change is that from 2022 onwards, for any properties that are rented, they must have smoke alarms in every bedroom. The idea of that is that the intent of smoke alarm legislation has always been to cover buildings where people sleep, because that is when we've found that people need to be made aware that there is a fire occurring, maybe downstairs and they're asleep upstairs. The building could become untenable before they're even aware that there is a fire downstairs.

With that new interconnected smoke alarm in every bedroom you will be able to, you will get notified and be made aware straight away that there is a fire occurring in another part of the building and you need to be evacuating that building. Smoke alarms will also need to be fitted into hallways, which connect the bedrooms and the rest of the dwelling. Or if there is no hallway, they must be between the bedrooms and other parts of that story or level of that house to make sure that there is instant notification to everybody.

And another one is that we're moving into now is that smoke alarms must be hardwired or powered by a non-removable 10-year battery, or a combination of both may be allowed. If you have hardwired smoke alarms in your house at the moment that is rented, you can change those and put in interconnected Bluetooth 10-year batteries that are connected to a 240-volt base-station smoke alarm, as long as they all activate together. When one activates, they all got activate, we are happy.

So prescribed locations for installing smoke alarms is really important where you put your smoke alarm in your house. One, that we don't want false alarms. So don't go around putting them too close to the stove, the kitchen, or anything like that. But also they must be placed, they've should or not must, they should always be placed on the ceiling of that level. No point putting them on the walls or anywhere like that. They must be on the ceiling. They cannot be, or must not be placed within 300 mm of the walls of the building, because that's what we call a dead space for smoke. The smoke will circulate, and you do get little dead areas where the smoke alarm may not pick up that smoke quickly and efficiently.

They cannot be within 400 millimeters of an air conditioner, obviously because of air flow. The air flow from the air conditioner may push the smoke away from that smoke alarm. And it may not activate quickly and efficiently as what we'd like. Also then the same sort of thing that cannot be within 400 millimeters of a ceiling fan.

Once again, because of the air disturbance from that ceiling fan moves the air around the air, the smoke alarm may not activate efficiently. With houses that have high ceilings, open areas, there are special allowances and special regulations for stairways, sloping roofs if you've got big cathedral type ceilings in a house.

There is special regulations for those as into how the smoke alarm should be fitted and to ensure that they activate effectively and quickly, should there be smoke in that building at all. If you really want to look into that as on electrical contractor, and to make sure that you are fitting them in the exactly where they should be, have a look at The Building Fire Safety Regulations, 2008. It's clearly outlined in there where smoke alarms can be and should and shouldn't be fitted with inside a dwelling.

As I mentioned before, there is a number of ways that you can power your smoke alarms. The preferred method is probably hardwired for us at the moment and any new building will have hardwired smoke alarms put into it when that building is constructed. That has been in place since 2017, I believe that is hardwired smoke alarms are the preferred option because once they're in, they're there forever, they just need to be, maybe the head of the smoke alarm needs to be changed every 10 years to ensure that it remains reliable.

The hardwired smoke alarm must be connected to the home's main supply and must have a battery backup system that if the house main supply fails for any reason, which they do tend to do during fires, the smoke alarm will keep activating with that battery backup. These are considered more reliable in the longer term. And if the AC power fails, as we said, we'll always know that you're going to, that smoke alarm is going to keep working.

For rental properties, if you currently have hardwired smoke alarms fitted through the building and you're re-upgrading to the new interconnected systems, you must continue with hardwired. There is ways that you can intermingle, and we'll have a look at those later where you can use hardwired and battery back in 10-year battery systems as well. Nine-volt removable batteries, they are legal until January 2022.

So they will need to be changed if you have nine-volt standard smoke alarms at the moment. And they also can say, if it's just a normal owner-occupied dwelling, nine-volt batteries are okay up until 2027. Replacement smoke alarms. As we've sort of mentioned before in some of the other presentations this morning, it's really important that if you're putting in new smoke alarms that they do meet the Australian standard, AS3786-2014 is the standard that they need to meet when you're buying them, purchasing them, always have a look at the packaging and make sure that it does meet that Australian standard. As I alluded to before, there are ways of taking on 10-year battery systems with Bluetooth. This is a fairly new technology, but it's been found to be very reliable. You can intermingle.

You can have a 240-volt based system with 10-year non-removable batteries in the bedrooms that are connected by Bluetooth to that base station. That is 240-volt that is acceptable as long as it is operational and it works. And you can also, if you have batteries right through your rental property at the moment, and they need to be upgraded, they must be upgraded to the 10-year non-removable batteries with a full Bluetooth system. That is acceptable under the legislation as well.

And we spoke before just a little bit in one of the previous presentations about tenant's responsibilities. One of, probably the one to touch on is that you must allow a smoke alarm technician into your property if the landlord or your managing agent contacts you and says they wanted to bring someone in to upgrade your smoke alarms, it is your responsibility to allow that person in. In the world we live in at the moment and we do get, I have just answered a query just yesterday to an elderly person who was concerned about COVID and COVID safe practices. Just make sure that if you are concerned about people coming into your property, that they have a COVID safe plan and that they are, if they're going to do a 240-volt work on your property installing smoke alarms, that they are a licensed contractor.

Probably just to finish off, some basic fire safety. The number of house fires, QFES every year, we are attending well over 1500, in the last year between 2020 and 2021, 1791 house fires QFES attended. Out of those, four in 10 of those fires started in the kitchen. That is by far the most common cause of fires is unattended cooking or cooking that is left unattended and electrical appliances that fail in the kitchen.

And I must say, as an investigator, it's quite interesting. I always hear this. It's an electrical failure, probably nine times out of 10, when we do our investigation. It's not the electrical appliance that fails. It's operator error. They're using that appliance in a manner that it was never designed for. Overloading power boards, those sorts of things are very common issues and do create house fires. And as we looked down there, two in three houses do not have smoke alarms currently in their bedrooms. So this is why we bought this legislation in is to make sure that if you're asleep or you're a child, very common these days for people to use noise-canceling headphones, and to be using them in their bedroom, listening to the TV, listening to whatever they like on their computer.

If a smoke alarm activates downstairs, when you've got your headphones on, is every chance you won't hear it. That is why we would like to see, or we want to see smoke alarms in every bedroom. So yes, 17% of households have not tested or maintained their smoke alarms. It's an important point.

As a tenant and as a landlord, the landlord is ultimately responsible for a smoke alarm, legislation compliance, but it's also the responsibility of the tenant to make sure that that smoke alarms in their property are operational. They don't remove them off the ceilings or anything else. And if they see a fault, it's their responsibility to let the landlord or their managing agent know straightaway and get that seeing to, to make sure that it's brought to the attention and that they are rectified straightaway.

If you have any more or would like any more information on smoke alarms and the new legislation, is there is a quite a big change that we're going through over the next few years through till 2027, but especially for rental properties in January 2022, go to the QFES website, qfes.qld.gov.au.

We have a large amount of information there that outlines to tenants, landlords of what your responsibilities are and how you can meet that legislative requirement. Thank you very much.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks Gordon. A couple of key points that might just reiterate the buzzwords are interconnected smoke alarms. They are in and coming and 1 January next year is a key date. So keep those two things in mind, interconnected smoke alarms, 1 January 2022.

If you'd like to ask Gordon a question during our panel session, please submit your questions. I can see there's a number of questions already. It's good to see that people are interactive in our presentation and the Q&A panel is coming up very shortly. So please, I encourage you to keep those questions coming.

Time now for Michael Gibson from The Electrical Safety Office, to tell us about unlicensed electrical work and what you can do to avoid it. Gibson has been involved in the electrical industry for 35 years, 20 of those working for the ESO. Please, welcome Michael.

Michael Gibson

Ah, thank you, Chris. And good morning, everybody. We want to use this opportunity just to reinforce the message about unlicensed work and those risks.

So I'll have a couple of quick points in regard to that work. Now, I think if anyone's got any confusion out there about what is or isn't electrical work, our legislation takes two pages to define it, but it's actually not that complicated.

If you're doing any changes, alterations, additions, repairs, or maintenance on your installation. There's a really good chance that that is electrical work is to find a legal license.

And this is very similar for electrical equipment. If you're starting to open equipment, you're doing repairs, you're working on the terminals of that equipment. You are doing electrical work.

One of the core areas is our license regime that we look after in The Electrical Safety Office. And I think Donna has spoken previously about the number of contractor license we have. We've got about, I thought, about 14,000 contractor license, about 58,000 workers licenses and a myriad of about 24 restricted license holders that are out there associated with trades.

So we just want to cover off some of those license requirements. The main one you'll see, and you'll have to use is a gold contractor license. That license allows the holder to perform all types of electrical work. So whether it's installation work, maintenance on repairs, all of that type of thing. We've used a couple examples there.

So if I'm getting power points changed. I'm getting new points added, new circuits, lighting circuits changed, that is electrical contractor gold license work. There is no issues there.

The second license you may come across is what we call a restricted contractor license. It's a silver license. This would be held by a person doing, mostly doing equipment repairs. Now it's really important to note that the license has a description of the equipment or it defines the equipment that license holder can work on. That's really important.

So if somebody shows you a silver license, the work that they can perform, the equipment they can work on is clearly detailed on the front of that license. So look for that work. That license does not allow the person to do installation work. That license does not allow a person to work on other equipment that's not defined on the license.

The third license you may see is a license that is affiliated with a trade. So we have plumbers, air conditioning workers, all those other auxiliary trades, and some of them will have a restricted license.

Now that restricted license will be restricted to the work they're doing, and often for a plumber, it will be to disconnect and reconnect of a hot water system. And that's similar to an air-con type installation. A restricted license holder cannot perform electrical installation work. They can't alter an electrical installation. They can do work affiliated to the work of their main trade, like we said, a plumber and air-con.

Now we're looking at the risks of unlicensed electrical work. And I really want to highlight some of the things we've found in the work we do. Obviously the first risk is the risk of you, the person doing that unlicensed work getting electric shock. Let's make no mistakes. You are not competent. You're not trained. You don't have the ability to do the installation work in a way that's electrically safe, that is tested to ensure it's electrically safe, and it's actually compliant to a myriad of standards that it would be required to be compliant to. So you receiving a shock, you doing uncompliant or unsafe work, is critical for somebody in that house, a homeowner or a child could receive a shock.

And the third one is the risk of that installation you've done causing a fire, whether through a poor connection, overloaded circuit, whatever, that is a huge risk that Gordon has previously spoke about. And on top of that, it's illegal, right in the last 12 months a year. So I was issued about a hundred thousand dollars in fines for unlicensed work. We've got a whole pile of a bit of a triangle of enforcement that we can take to address unlicensed work. Now whether it's on-the-spot fines, or if the person is conducting a business that includes that unlicensed work, we will prosecute them in a court of law.

So it's illegal and it's illegal and we want to stop it. The only other point we're looking at is we're getting a couple examples where people are, what we'd say, they're providing false or misleading information, so whether the license is a little bit funny or they are actually giving somebody else's number. So there's a little bit of that. We are aware of it and we're going to follow it up. That's why and I think on Michael's PowerPoint as well, we really want people to double check if I'm running a business and I'm using contractors, it's a little bit of due diligence, go to our website and check that their license is valid. And the people on it are the people that are representing on that license. So that's critical.

And once again, we'll just reinforce if you're aware or you suspect your tenant or your property manager, your business owner, is doing an unlicensed electrical work that is reportable. There's a requirement to report it. And we will look at all reports and notifications. So thank you. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Bombolas

Again, the key message I think from Michael is, do not even contemplate, let alone, use unlicensed electrical work. It's illegal and dangerous. If you've got a question for Michael coming up very shortly is our panel, our Q&A. And so just get in there with that.

And just before we go to the panel session, let's head north to Townsville and I'd like to call in Aaron Smith from Energy Queensland.

Aaron's going to talk about shocks and tingles from taps, metal fittings and electrical equipment. Aaron works on Energy Queensland's community safety program to engage and educate the community about electrical safety, to reduce injury and damage as a result of contact with overhead and underground lines.

Aaron is a Director of Dial Before You Dig Queensland, a position he's held for 11 years. Welcome Aaron, thanks for joining us.

Aaron Smith

Thank you, Chris. Hope you can hear me okay there. Okay. Sort of just to revert to the opening statement that Donna made in relation to shocks and tingles. And that's quite an obvious statement that if you're getting shocks and tingles, it means there's something wrong.

So today we're just going to go through some of the key points and more importantly, what actions should be taken when that happens. So to start off with, it's a very, very widespread problem with nearly a quarter a week, and that leads into this sort of the fact that it's not always on top of mind. People think incidences are pretty rare because it doesn't happen to them, or they don't know anyone that actually has been impacted by that, and don't always see the consequences of an electric shock.

So, you know, like I said, nearly 50 a week. Keeping in mind they're the ones that we know about. They're the ones that are actually people have made the effort to report. So, you know, our view is probably significantly by that. Some people might not choose to report, particularly if, just like Mark said, they've done something wrong and you know that caused the shock themselves. So there's also a little bit of a disconnect with what people actually believe they should do, and the correct course of action for them to take. So we'll cover that as well. And not everyone, not everyone actually acts immediately.

We've got some anecdotal sort of around that. We will go through and they're fairly sort of honest, and there's a belief that electrical safety is just common sense. And that sort of, we see that in the house and, you know, people know it's dangerous, so everyone knows what to do. But we see that a lot contact with an overhead or underground power as well. So there's certain people complacency within the community, A couple of these anecdotes. And unfortunately, we've got plenty more that we could share. And these are, these are actually anecdotal quotes that have come from our call center where customers actually have caught up and they've been documented.

So in this first case, customers receiving a shock from the taps in the shower, and they advised a real estate and they were told that basically when you have a share, and we see that a lot in laundries, too. That people will then sort of, you know, just wear, put a mat down, or wear shoes or thongs to avoid it rather than contact us straight away. And in this case here was six months. So I've tried to sort of use different scenarios here.

So the next one, their customer mentioned that her daughter wasn't able to use a power point in a room, because she has got a zap every time she tried to use it. So the advice was just, yeah, just not to use the power point anymore, and this went on for about six months before they actually reported it and an action was taken. There in the last one, customer got a shock from a tap outside, thought it was quite funny. So, you know, got his nephew to come and touch it and, you know, sort of kept doing that until somebody rightly so, advised them to give us a call straight away. And unfortunately a little bit more that we know about behaviors. And I'm not sure if anyone on the webinar or in the panels actually received the shock themselves, but there is, there is a bit of a temptation to touch it again to test if it was real and just to sort of double, double check that it actually happened when really the last thing, that's the last thing you should be doing.

And, and we get our staff often have multiple reports of shocks from the one resident because they'll say, hey, I think I've got a shock from the tap or from an appliance and somebody else will automatically then go and go and touch it. So if that happens and we talked a little bit about portable pieces of equipment, but if that happens in, please, you know, if you can't safely disconnect the equipment before you call up, then do so. Otherwise just stay away from all metal parts and attachments to the house or particular appliances that may be causing an issue until we've attended. And make safe will actually just touch a little bit around that forward action as well.

So I guess to put that we sort of focused on what is an electric shock. And my slides will catch up with me in a minute. The electric shocks happens when an electric current from a live object passes through our body. So we were a very good conductor of electricity given the amount of fluid that's in our body. And the shock can sort of be quite painful, particularly if it's quite a high voltage, quite high current, or it can just be sort of like a bit of, a bit of a zap, and the severity of that shock is impacted by, you know, if it's from hand to hand and it actually runs through your chest area through your heart, as opposed to, you know, quicker pass, maybe down at your feet.

So, so yeah, from perspective of a tingle it's sort of like on a lower level, but it does actually feel like pins and needles when your body makes contact. So you actually sort of feel pins and needles type sensation up your hand if you hand touched it. And static electricity, we've all felt static. That's quite a short shock, spot particularly, you know, the time of year that we're in or we've just been in. So, and look, you know, if you're not sure, then please make sure you contact us straight away and get a check there.

So, and look, you know, some of the obvious ones, if you've got cracked power point slide, switches, appliances, particularly with power points slide, particularly if you've got wet hands, because it's much easier path for it to get through the switch in the kitchen. And that's things like, you know, when you've washed your hands, you've done the washing and now you're going to turn the insinkerator on, it's quite common and things like roofs, gutters, pull ladders, if there's anything wrong in the house, then certainly can be, you know, coming from that metal things as well.

So what should you do? So we know what a shock is. We know some of the effects it is. We know people that react very quick enough, a lot of the time. So we actually have a new shock and tingle campaign out now. And it's sort of runs along the theme of the next thing you touch and the touch should be to be fine. And the thing is, like I said, keep everyone else away.

And if it's in the Ergon area, then, you know, contact Ergon and down in southeast, Energex. And we actually treat that as a life-threatening situation. So it doesn't matter what time of the day, seven days a week, that our crew will attend to immediately. What happens when you contact? Well, make contact with our call center, they contact the crew. You'll need to be in attendance or somebody will need to be in attendance when the crews arrive at the property to make sure that we've got the information that we need and can sort of trace back to the source that affects the area and determine whether it's a private issue or a network issue.

And I'll, I'll talk about that shortly. What I will do want to hit it right away from the electrical aspect is that we have multiple, multiple dog attacks with our meter readers and our staff every week, that prior to our attendance, if you can sort of security any dogs to make it safe for us to be able to come and help and investigate the issue. So, electricity network issue means, you know, maybe an issue in the street with our working system or our attachment.

Now, if that's the case and we determined that we will do that, then we'll carry out the repairs straight away. And obviously there won't be any cost to the customer or the tenant, the owner. And if it's a property issue so if it's something to do with the wiring inside the property, or, you know, an appliance or basically any sort of wiring in the property, then we sort of recommend contacting or we recommend, we will actually advise to contact electrical contractor immediately to come and rectify the issue. And if it's not safe and something that we can, it can be sort of rectified straight away. We won't leave that property until we potentially have disconnected the source, or we've disconnected the power and issued you with, with a form to go and get those repairs. So that's the course of action to take. And here is just a little bit of a look quick at our Instagram.

So this is Ergon. This is for one for Energex. Well, so we just put the campaigns because of our network ownership. And please, if you get a couple of minutes, then can you jump on and go and have a look at the, if you haven't seen it on TV, jump on and have looked at the YouTube videos of the ads, and please share, please share the content and particularly not the content, the actual core message that we've just talked through.

So thank you, Bomber I know that was pretty quick, but also very conscious of the fact that we're really late on time as well. So thank you from a beautiful day in northern Queensland.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks very much, Aaron, you stay online. We are getting to the Q&A panel right now. The other four guys have joined us, of course, in the studio. Lots of questions. We'll attempt to answer as many as we can during the webinar now. And we will try to get back and respond to as many as we can after this as well that we can.

So let's go to question one, this one's for you, Gibbo. And I know we're running over time. I do apologize, but we want to get to as many of these as we can in the next few minutes, and just stretch our time a little bit, from Sierra to Gibbo. Is it a legal requirement for landlords to test and tag electrical equipment supplied to the rental property?

Michael GIbson

Thanks Chris. They are. There's probably two steps to that question depending, let's just keep it to domestic residential properties. There is no requirement from the landlords to have a test and take process in place. What we want to focus on is the they've got a process if they are, have fixed equipment in that residence that is maintained. So there's a process to report any damage, that type of thing, and obviously the safety switch is in place and is tested and maintained. So that will be our requirements there.

Chris Bombolas

Question two for Gordon. This is from Shane in old Queenslander type houses. The laundry is a normally downstairs, you know, the old laundry downstairs, but no other rooms, just open space. Do these require a smoke alarm with, you know, a lot of them have just the wood panels around the house.

Gordon Hemphrey

Thanks Chris. Good question. This does get raised a bit in Queensland, especially with those style of houses. No, they don't. All we ask is that if you use it as a workshop or you use it as a carpark for your own safety, we would advise that you put one, it's not a requirement, but we would advise you put them there just in case if something catches fire down there, that you are notified upstairs with your interconnected smoke alarms.

Chris Bombolas

Is it a bit different if it's in closed, fully enclosed?

Gordon Hemphrey

If it's fully enclosed and it is part of the pathway out of the house, you must have a smoke alarm installed in the pathway or in the exit out of the house. But if it is a non-habitable area as we call it, so it's not a sleeping area or it's not used as a family room. No, it doesn't require them, but we advise that you put them.

Chris Bombolas

Okay, thank you. Annabel asked for you, David, can landlords be liable for industrial manslaughter?

David Gore

Thank you, Chris. And thanks Annabel for the question. You're quite right, that The Electrical Safety Act does provide for the offensive industrial manslaughter, whether or not, an owner of a residential rental property could be liable for that offense will depend on whether the property is owned as part of a business or undertaking, which in most instances, if you're talking mum-and-dad investor, only a few investment properties, the mere fact that they own a property that generates an income will not ordinarily be sufficient for them to have be considered to be carrying on a business. So in most cases, no. Additionally for that offense to be committed, the person who is killed must actually be a worker for the business, a contractor or an employee. So if, that's another matter that a prosecuting authority would take into account, so potentially, but in most cases, no.

Chris Bombolas

This one is for you. Tommo from Dane and Dane asks, how do you tell if you have safety switches installed also, do you need a safety system certificate once you get those safety switches installed?

Michael Thompson

So as per my presentation, you need to go out to you switchboard and have a look at the circuit breaker. Some old houses will also have the fuses, which we recommend you get replaced, but they look very similar to a circuit breaker, but they have, with circuit breaker, you just have the toggle, whereas a safety switch elect, you have a little button that actually says test on it, in or around it, even on them. Circuit breakers do not have that button at all.

So they do come in a myriad of different sizes, shapes and views. So just look for that test button and in regards to the certificate, yes, that definitely means if you are getting them tested by an electrical contractor, they will provide that on their, basically a certificate of electrical safety and testing on their invoice. So that's part and parts of that. So you've definitely have both.

Chris Bombolas

And it seems like we've shared the questions around one for Aaron. So you're still online. Hopefully Aaron, up there from beautiful Townsville. This is from Alex. How do I know which electricity entity to call if I have issues on my property?

Aaron Smith

Essentially it's a good point, essentially, it's the southeast corner. So the old, if you used to be serviced by SEQEB, then it's Energex. And if you're sort of north of the range. So if you are an Ergon customer originally, or you receive your bill from Ergon still, then you contact the Ergon number.

Chris Bombolas

Cool, thanks very much, Aaron. And on that note, we're going to say goodbye to Townsville. Thanks for joining us today. And we appreciate each of our speakers. So to Michael, David, Gordon, Gibbo, and Aaron up there in Townsville and to Donna who spoke previously, thank you for your participation and your presentations. They were informative and insightful, and I'm sure our audience got plenty out of today.

And I thank those people at home and in offices and in workplaces who have joined us for this very special webinar. Today's webinar was recorded and will be available to watch and share with your friends or colleagues that may have missed it at electricalsafety.qld.gov.au.

That's also where you'll find a whole host of other resources and information on electrical safety in rental properties. You can also follow the ESO on Facebook. Keep your eye out for an email from us over the next few days to complete a feedback survey about today's event. We really do value your feedback. It helps us shape events in the future.

So if you could just spare us two minutes, we would really appreciate it and be honest and frank. That basically concludes today's webinar. Hope you took plenty out of it.

Thanks for joining us for The Electrical Safety in Rental Properties webinar, hope you took plenty home and you can join us in the very near future. As always, work safe, home safe.

[End of Transcript]

Electrical contractor webinar

Chris Bombolas

Good morning everyone and welcome to our electrical contractor webinar. Thanks for joining us for another Electricity Safety Week event. I'm Chris Bombolas from the office of Industrial Relations and I'm your MC for this morning's event.

Can I firstly acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we meet and elders past, present, and emerging. We're celebrating Electricity Safety Week this week with a range of free events and prizes. So once again thanks for joining us today. And you could be a winner.

Throughout today's session there's an opportunity to ask our speakers any questions you like. Just type them into the live Q and A box on the right of your screen and we'll get to them during the panel session which is happening a little later on. And get this, just by typing your question you'll go into the draw to win one of three 100 dollar trade equipment gift vouchers. That's an easy competition with some great odds. And hope you can join in for that one.

If you have any technical problems during our session then please make sure the sound is turned off on your computer, refresh your browser, and if that doesn't work contact us via the Q and A chat box.

Today is R U OK day which is all about inspiring and empowering people to meaningfully connect with those in their world and to lend support when they are struggling with life. On that note let's welcome in Paul Spinks an advanced care paramedic and trauma counselor to officially kick start today's event.

Paul has worked in employment services and in a rehab as a national training manager conducting self development courses. His presentation discusses suicide which some people might find disturbing. If you or someone you know is struggling we will have some slides up shortly where you can get help and support. Welcome in Paul.

Paul Spinks

Thank you. Thank you Chris and g'day all. Look I'm gonna take you on a fairly wild journey on the next half an hour or so on what it means to keep well.

So 16 years in the ambulance service aa trauma councilor, I've learned a lot and seen a lot. I wanna share some of that with you today. Can I just begin to tell you that I'm currently working out in the far remote Cape York region of Australia in a small station with a catch man area of about 300 kilometers. It certainly has had its challenges.

I went out on a job, I was dispatched there, couple of weeks ago 150 kilometers away going down a dirt road I was told just to keep right on this dirt road and drive for a couple of hours. As I continued driving I get to an intersection and I thought well that wasn't the plan, I didn't know whether to turn right or go straight ahead. Fortunately I went straight ahead which was the right way. I drove for about another hour or so. I started getting concerned, it was hot, it was dry, what happens if I break down?

All a sudden I lost my GPS, didn't know where I was going in the middle of some pretty hard country out there. I thought about my water bottle, I thought oh my god what happens if I break down am I gonna run out of water here? A bit further on there was some fires. I thought oh what happens if I get surrounded by fire? It's amazing that anxiety cascade isn't it as it just builds up and up and up.

Fortunately about another hour on the drive I came across little rangers tent, an Indigenous worker came out and greeted me and he took me the last 10 or 15 minutes to the particular patient I had to go to. So it had a nice ending, but some pretty interesting challenges.

One of the challenges I had out there was this it was a particularly nasty accident. It was a father and his son on a motor bike and they were heading out to just having some fun having adventure with his lad and they were going round this sweeping left hand corner and when they did the young bloke gave a bit of a squirt and he went out onto the wrong side of the road and a truck was coming the other way. And collected him and put him straight onto the truck he got caught up under the truck. He was killed instantly. And the dad was on scene, so pretty horrific stuff.

Dad turned around and found his young bloke caught under the truck. Ambulance rocks up scene and it's a pretty tragic day probably one of the worst accidents I've ever been to, but a pretty profound awakening, a lot of wake up calls on that particular job. But I spent about an hour and a half on scene with the dad just trying to counsel him and work through this particular tragedy. Towards the end of the accident I was getting ready to go and I embraced the dad. We had a bit of a cry together. I have a son about the same age. And he said to me, he said "oh you know he had his hair dyed green yesterday." And he said "he had this monstrous tattoo put down his arm." He said "I got up him about his tattoo, "I got up him about his green hair." And he just shook his head. In other words it meant nothing.

In death it meant absolutely nothing. It's interesting the things we worry about isn't it you know green hair, tattoos, is somebody gay, you know all the COVID discussion, it stresses us and worries us so much. But at the end of the day does it really matter?

What are we really worried about that or what should we be really worried about? COVID-19 deserves a mention these days and this is from an ambulance response, but I got called around to one of the COVID hotels. And a young bloke was threatening to commit suicide 12 days in lockdown in a tiny room. And around the hotels I rocked up there, walked upstairs, and when I got upstairs the police were out the front and they gave me a brief. I walked inside and there the balcony doors are wide open.

So I had a bit of a chat to this young bloke. I decided he wasn't too much of a threat. Walked out and said to the police look I said "I think he can stay "as long as we put him down into a safer room." And the police said to me "no problems at all." So I went downstairs I was doing my paperwork and the sergeant come up to me said "mate just to let you know" he said "I put the young bloke downstairs in a safe room." I said "terrific" I said "what room did you put him in?" He said "the fourth floor." And I said "the fourth floor? I said "do you think he could still "jump out of the fourth floor and harm himself?" He said "yeah he probably could." I said "well why don't you stick him in the first floor?" And he said "yeah" he said "the problem with the first floor" he said "they're all locked balcony's on the first floor." And I said "and your point is?" And he said "well" he said "we're not allowed, "the regulations forbid us "to put people into a locked room." He said "I'd need a high court judge "to allow us to put him into a locked room."

So I said okay, so they left him on the fourth floor and I thought wow isn't it amazing, all the rules and regulation we have to do. And here we are in a police environment and this young bloke couldn't be put safely into a locked room.

I wanna tell you about another nasty job I did which involved this particular apartment building. I got called to a 35 year old girl that was threatening self harm or threatening to commit suicide. When I walked in there I saw her on about the fourth floor of this particular apartment building. She was sitting there and I walked in there, I gave her a bit of a wave, and I run up the stairs to go and have a chat to her. It was about four o'clock on Christmas Eve, I was going home at five.

So I thought if I can just get her down to see the psychologist down at Robina Hospital, that was the plan. But when I got up there she'd crossed over the balcony and she was just hanging onto the side of the balcony this little lip of concrete. And I thought oh my god don't do this to me on Christmas Eve. And so I had a bit of a chat to her for about five minutes or so and I could see her pupils were fully dilated. She'd entered what I call the black hole. She couldn't see her family, she couldn't see her friends anymore, she just wanted end the pain.

So I knew what I was doing wasn't going to help too much. So I ran downstairs and I got underneath her and I'm talking to her from underneath her. I thought hopefully she won't jump in this position. Female partner walks in, she runs up the stairs and she tries some female negotiating power. And when she does she's met with the same issue, she enters the black hole. And right about this time the bystander is about to go shopping, talk about the right place at the right time or the wrong place the wrong time, however you view life. She walks out and she sees the commotion so she decide to get involved and we kind of all recruited her. And she started, so both the girls started to approach the patient, I was underneath her.

We knew we had to do something because she was getting more and more loose on the balcony, and she was oh she was about to jump. So the right moment the command was given to grab her. And when they went to grab her the girl jumped from the balcony but the partner managed to grab her foot and the bystander managed to grab her hand. Bystander couldn't hang on for too long so she let go of her hand, she was now upside down with one leg with my partner hanging onto her on the balcony. She couldn't hang onto her either and she eventually had to let her go and she came down about a meter from me from the balcony. And the rest is history.

Pretty horrific scene. Her brother rocks up on scene, not a great place for a brother to rock up on scene, but he's really composed, he knew his sister was in trouble. I said "mate" I said "how did it get to this?" He said "god" he said "mate she was doing all right "four or five years ago" but he said "her husband had walked out on her "and she wasn't doing too well. "She went to see psychologist, "the psychologist referred her to a psychiatrist, "the psychiatrist put her on lithium, Valium, "antidepressants, antipsychotics, you name it, "she was on a sweet of medication." I say oh my god how did this girl even get through the day.

As psychiatrists start to try and intervene with every single neuron inside of our head. But so when was your last normal? How do we get ourselves into these positions? If I'm not talking about you today I'm most certainly talking about one of your family members. When I sit round the dinner table with my kids every night, when I work with my ambulance colleagues, so when I'm doing presentations I walk around with this acronym called help and I wanna share it with you because it's saved a lot of lives.

Help stands for any signs of hopelessness or helplessness. If I'm sitting around the table and I notice that I just hover over my kids and I dig a bit deeper I never let these things go. And they're offering any signs of emotional behaviour, emotional distress, are they crying more than normal? Are they angry more than normal? And I hover over it and I dig a little bit deeper and ask lots of questions. Are they offering any signs of loss? Loss of appetite, loss of connection, loss of friends? That's a big one. And if I notice anything like that I just hover over it and dig a bit deeper.

And then offer any physical changes. Is there any, their clothes ragged, are their hair ragged or whatever the case may be, you think oh just hover over it and dig a bit deeper. I can't tell you how many lives I've saved or intervened just by using that help. I would challenge you to do the same.

So how have we got our heads in the sand when it comes to all things mental health?

There's so much discussion on mental health, every time you turn the television on the radio, there's something about mental health. But how well do we really do mental health? How well do you do it at home? How well do you invest in this thing called mental health? Like who's had the suicide conversation with the kids? Pretty tough question isn't it?

I had the suicide conversation with my young bloke when he was about 16 years of age. He said "you know what dad?" He said "I have been thinking about harming myself." I went "really?" Now in the ambulance we have a criteria. You can have the thoughts, everyone can have the thoughts, but the next question takes a quantum leap to about an 80 percent probability, do you know how and do you know where?

So I asked my young bloke do you know how and do you know where? To which he replied "yeah dad I know exactly how "and I know exactly where." Okay, let's get onto this. So we get him down the doc, we get him referred to a psychologist, I sacked the first psychologist 'cause they were useless.

Be prepared to sack your psychologist and hunt for a good one. And about two or three later I found a terrific one and we stayed in that place. We worked on him for the next 12 months or two years and in today he's doing really well. All of the advice has been given along the way. Had we not had the conversation, had I not deepened the conversation, or had not used things tools like help he may not be with us today. I just wanna show you this little video.

People that become mentally ill or suicidal it starts with obviously little cracks. They become.

Bigger cracks if left unattended. What do you think right now in your life is some cracks, some little cracks that could just be? Dangerous.

- Very insecure.

- Yeah.

- Insecurity, why are we so insecure?

- Just 'cause there's about, yeah like not fitting in to like the certain like fit category or whatever like I don't know.

- And I feel also judged by my parents. I feel like I feel like they're not proud of me. And I don't look I'm not like pretty enough. I just feel like I've let them down with who I am.

People that become mentally ill or suicidal. If that doesn't put a shiver down your spine for anybody that's got a daughter I tell you what, listen to that conversation. Not pretty enough, and all the things that kids fear at this stage. But that video is particularly personal to me because that's my daughter. And we just went down the park to have a conversation on marijuana actually. We grabbed three of her friends. That video went for about half an hour.

And we're having lots of laughs and lots of funs and that was the back end and started noticing little cracks. What did I do? Help, hover over it and dug a little bit deeper. And then sort of wow bang, dad gets punched in the face and there it is right in my family. I invest in mental health, got a good relationship, great relationship with my daughter. The just hovering below the surface is some of these things. How well do we do mental health? How well do we invest in our family? Do you go home every night and get on social media and start on Facebook and start investing in somebody else's life when these little time bombs and these little cracks are sort of could be ticking away at your house? Needs some thought doesn't it?

I want to people to do all kinds of things to service their mental health, and I just want to run through a couple of them. But this is a big one. But in the year, or in the year of 2016 or so a large number of Australian's walked into our doctors and said "doctor doctor I'm agitated, "doctor doctor I can't sleep." And the doctors prescribed us an alarming amount of mind-altering medication just get through the day. Around the year of 2016 or '17 it was about 30 million prescriptions.

So we threw a stack of money at it, we expanded mental health services, and did a go up or did it go down? It went up, it was about 40 million prescriptions. And now the current rate of prescriptions for antidepressants are around 50 million tablets.

Is that how we do mental health these days? Do we just erode our mental health, have no checks along the way and find ourselves all a sudden having some kind of episode walking to the doctor and saying "doctor, doctor, I'm agitated. "Doctor, doctor, I can't sleep." And the doctor in their wisdom might hand us a little packet of pills and out we go where we treat the symptom but we never treat the cause. Needs a lot more thought than that doesn't it?

The next big one I'd say to you is breathe.

God we've become a nation of shallow breathers. We used to breathe about 20 years ago at seven or eight breaths a minute. Now we're breathing at something like 13, 14, 15, 20, 25 breaths a minute.

And something extraordinary happens when you start to shallow breathe 'cause we blow off too much carbon dioxide. When we blow off too much carbon dioxide our arteries constrict. It snaps out little arteries, our major arteries snap shut into the big muscles in our back and we get tight in our back. It snaps the muscles shut into our coronary artery hence the correlation between stress and heart attack. It snaps the carotid artery shut hence the correlation between stroke and stress. It increases the stress hormones of adrenaline and cortisol and it reduces down the production of the good fuel of serotonin and dopamine. Wow just all in the power of the breath. Imagine if we could bring it back eh?

Imagine if we could invest in this thing called mental health. You know what? I'll just do all the organic things first. I'll start breathing again at seven or eight breaths per minute. I'll get on a YouTube clip overnight or I'll just lie on the floor and I'll do a one minute guided exercise and mediation just learn how to breathe again. Wow we can make profound changes.

One respiratory physiologist said that 98 percent of blood pressure can be controlled just in the power of the breath. Worth investing in. But I'm gathering you won't go home tonight and do that will you? You won't go home and probably do that five or 10 minutes so we gotta do every day invest, how's that gonna make it really easy?

Started this thing called the two second rule in the ambulance service at work's it's a treat. Because when I go off to a nasty job or a cardiac arrest hey my adrenaline and cortisol goes to the roof. I roll out of those doors, I'm looking at drugs and protocols and things like that. I rock up to somebody's house and go over that fence. Somebody's in cardiac arrest and there's a family there. God if I get out of the car at that time I'm no good to anybody.

So I've just adopt the two second rule. The two second's like a micro manage of meditation rule. In through the nose. Out through the, okay you've got this Paul. And I get out calm cool and collected and deliver the job. So successful it's been in the ambulance service. I use it on the kids. Kids give me a hard time at home. In through the nose. Out through the mouth. Okay kids let's just do this. Somebody gives me the finger I nearly jam up the back side of somebody's car and they you know wave at me stupid or give me a hard time. In through the nose out through the mouth. Doesn't work all the time but I've gotta say it works a lot of the time.

There's other ways to find me. There's a QR code here. And I'll have to check with how the people that are operating today just to further get you a QR code to you. But this will if you scan this QR code it'll take you to a summary video of my presentation today. If you'll get my personal emails, my personal details.

So if you have any questions please write to me I love it when people write to me. And I'll always get back to you. Thanks for tuning in today.

Chris Bombolas

Thank you Paul. As always your presentation is revealing. There's no sugar coating anything including poop food. I'll rephrase what you said. And some great advice. And Paul we really appreciate your taking time. I thought I was a better me today, but having listened to you, there's certainly improvement that we can all make whether it's mental or physical so thank you again.

In light of this being R U OK day I encourage you to use these four steps to start a conversation with your friends, family and colleagues. And as Paul said, sometimes those conversations are confronting and they are not easy. So it could change a life if you begin with these simple four suggestions. Ask, are you okay? Listen. Encourage action. Check in. And we love an acronym here in the government so that turns out to be ALEC. So ask are you okay, listen, encourage action, and check in. And we might change slides now. And on your screen you will see some very important contact numbers that you can reach out to if you or someone you know, and that could be a work colleague, it could be a loved one, anyone in your life that may be going through a tough time.

You can see some of the organizations there, some great help given by these guys. Mates in Construction, MensLine Australia, Lifeline, Beyond Blue, the Black Dog Institute, Suicide Call Back Service, and the SANE Australia, and Open Minds.

So again all those contact details are there. And if you feel the need or you think someone needs some help then please use those numbers and contact details. Let's move onto our next speaker coming up very very shortly. But Paul's gonna join us for our panel session later on.

And if you do have any questions for Paul or any other member of our panel we do have three 100 dollar trade equipment vouchers to give away. It's pretty easy, all you need to do is type your name and question in the Q and A box to the left of your screen. Remember that for every question you ask that's one entry into the draw. So it might be good that if you ask multiple questions and we can get to them you got multiple chances of winning those trade vouchers.

I'd now like to welcome Donna Heelan. She is the Executive Director of the Electrical Safety Office, to give us an update about ESO matters. Donna welcome.

Donna Heelan

Thanks Chris. Wow what a tough act to follow with going straight behind Paul. Sadly we'll change tactic a little bit more. And I thank you all very much for taking time out of your busy work and home lives to join us today as part of Electricity Safety Week.

Electrical safety I often say is not sexy. But as the electrical contractors QTP's and QBP's and yes we do like a good acronym, thanks Bombe. You play a critical role in ensuring the professionalism, the competency, the well being, health and safety of Queensland's Electrical Industry.

On any given day we have around 60,000 licensed electrical workers, 12,000 contractors, and almost 9,000 apprentices. And while every single one of them should be going home safely every day sadly this doesn't always happen. Last year there were 22 serious electrical incidents in Queensland, and tragically three of them were fatal. That's three people that no longer have their dad, their son, their partner, their workmate, their coach or their friend. I know you will all join me in saying that this number should be zero. Zero fatalities and zero serious electrical incidents.

For those doing the wrong thing we will not shy away from using all available enforcement tools with the regulator. We've been focusing as you probably know an unlicensed electrical contracting and unlicensed electrical work. Not only is it illegal it is unsafe and dangerous.

So far in the last 12 months we've issued almost 100,000 dollars worth of on the spot fines and progress with a number of matters before the courts through the Independent Work Health and Safety Prosecutor. Many of you know that our electrical safety laws were established in 2002, almost 20 years ago, which then provided high standards of safety for the industry. But new and emerging technologies have lead to significant changes for the electricity generation, storage, and supply, which is why the Electrical Safety Act is currently under independent review to ensure it remains effective relevant and future proofed. I'm really proud to lead the electrical safety team. And this year has seen a number of firsts.

The first industrial mass order charge has been laid by the office of the Work Health and Safety Prosecutor under the Electrical Safety Act after a tragic fatality. We've had the successful application of three magistrate court injunctions for failures to comply with improvement notices. And we've issued the first immediate license suspension for unsafe electrical work. These have never been done before in Queensland.

And while we're on the topic of enforcement action, the Independent Prosecutors Office has secured almost 440,000 dollars of fines for breaches of the Electrical Safety Act in the past 12 months. We're also focusing on expanding our reach as the regulator to ensure we have visibility in the Queensland community. Not just in the Southeast Queensland corner but across all of our great state. We've written to 37,000 landlords about their duties under the legislation.

And if you're around tomorrow or have people that are a landlord or work in the real estate industry, I urge you to encourage them to join us tomorrow for our final electricity safety webinar for landlords and real estates. We've reached almost 300,000 people with the don't DIY campaign and that's only since June this year. We've had 101,000 people visit the electrical safety community webpage.

Again a new initiative of the Office of Industrial Relations which only came live in October of last year. We've conducted 65 electrical equipment examinations to make sure the electrical equipment you bring into your home is safe for you and your family. And we've had almost 43,000 views of the electrical contracting self audit tool. And finally while I'm on the topic of numbers, some months ago we started the E safe apprentice edition with over 8,000 subscribers. If you have apprentices in this industry I urge you to encourage them to sign up to this esafe edition which will keep them up-to-date that are especially targeted to them, their wellbeing, and their safety.

As the Executive Director for the Electrical Safety Office there are a number of emerging trends that are of significant concern. And we have committed this year to a number of key priority areas. These include the hazard of working around energized parts and the risk of injuries or death as a result of an arc flash, contact with overhead lines, neutral failures, clearance from ground and structures for overhead lines, and compliance with installation safety standards and compliance with the sale of safe electrical equipment. But truly it is an amazing and exciting time to be in this industry.

We have the emergence of renewable technologies that we didn't see five, 10, 15 years ago. PV solar, solar and wind farms, and the development of technologies around batteries, battery storage, independently owned small scaled generation and storage of power, the emerging use of hydrogen, electric vehicles, and in some areas they're working on the development of electric commuter airplanes.

Who would've thought just 118 years since the Wright brothers first took flight we would be looking at flying in an airplane completely powered by batteries? The pace of this technology is impressive, but with all change comes challenge. And one of them is for the regulator and the industry to ensure we are able to keep up to date with what's happening and to keep on top of these emerging technologies to make sure we're safe.

Thank you again for joining us today. Each and every day your industry helps Queenslander's keep the lights on, powers our hospitals, our schools, and our workplaces.

And I share with you the same message that I have said many times this week for Electricity Safety Week. If you take one thing away it is that the professionalism, competence, safety and well being of this industry is not about each of us individually but about every one of us working together. Work safe, home safe. Thank you.

Chris Bombolas

Thank you very much Donna. And I can't believe that it's 118 years since Wilbur and Orville Wright took flight for the very first time. Yeah, time gets away from us. Again Donna will be part of our panel very very shortly. And I would encourage you to ask our panel members questions.

We've got three 100 dollar trade equipment vouchers to give away. It's pretty easy. All you need to do is type your name and question in the Q and A box to the left of your screen.

Let's move into another area. And it's time to welcome in Noel Gosgrove. And he is the General Manager of CV Services Group. Noel will discuss what he's learnt when he faced with the electrical licensing Committee for an arc flash injured one of their electrical workers.

Noel has been with CV for over 15 years and has 35 years of industry experience. He is responsible for the effective operation of the whole electrical construction division including the delivery of revenues of over 45 million dollars. Quite a budget there, Noel. And leading a team of 160 people and that's a team as well, across four locations.

Welcome Noel, looking forward to your talk.

Noel Cosgrove

So good morning everybody.

Today I just wanna talk about fronting the electrical licensing committee. Look particularly my experience and what I've learnt through that. I've just recap on that, I'm the General Manager of CV Services, the electrical Construction Division. I've been with the company about 15 years now. I've seen it significantly grow as in business. We have close to 170 people now because we've got a lot of work on and 135 of them are in the field.

We do and work across a lot of sites, residential, commercial, and industrial. Nearly all of them being in Queensland, and staying on top of our safety and compliance is a challenge. I believe we do it well, I believe we have good systems in place. We have a great team of people from our apprentices all the way up to the managers. And we have just a good safety management compliance system.

However we do get incidents.

And today I wanna speak about particularly one of them incident so. So we've been in front of the committee twice.

Once in 2018 from an electrical shock incident. It resulted in us enrolling in the LEAD program which to be honest brought real good benefits to our safety culture in the company. But the second incident in 2019 is the one I really wanna talk about. This was an incident which was an arc flash incident. We had a worker who was installing a CT meter on a switchboard. He missed a step in the process. When he energized that switch the meter faulted and I think you may be able to see from the picture that his hand was above the meter as he energized the switch and the arc flash caused a significant burn to his hand.

Look that was pretty traumatic for him, it was pretty traumatic for us as a business. You know we really challenged ourselves after this incident and really looked into our systems a lot more. The SO conducted an investigation into the incident, but we also conducted our own internal investigation as well. We wanted to see if there was a step that we could've done that would've stopped this incident happening.

And to be honest, after the investigation we believe we fundamentally didn't do anything wrong, but we found out that if we would've implemented another process and stopped the switching of that switch when it happened that we would've resolved this incident.

So when we fronted the ELC in 2009 we explained to them how the incident happened and we explained what we'd done in the investigation and what procedure we'd put in place. And generally what it was is that we will not allow anyone in our business to switch a switch in excess of 250 amps where we believe there's a high fault current. We have a specific stock process. It has to be peer reviewed, it has to be signed off by a manager, and there's a number of steps they have to take. I will say we've had that in place about two years now and I know in at least one occasion that has stopped an issue so.

So when we presented that to the committee they looked at it and no disciplinary action was taken. So of them two incidents I just wanna talk a little bit about the positive and negatives and what we saw from it.

So look, standing in front of the committee makes you accountable, there is no doubt about it. I believe there's a lack of accountability in our industry. Really standing up there and explaining your systems and explaining what you do does make you accountable. We have 170 people. If we get restrictions on our license it affects the employment of 170 of our people.

So we can't take that chance. And for me that's our individual accountability, but I think as a business we need far more accountability. It was good to see yesterday in the safety summit that the lead was that we're gonna bring in a more compulsory continuing professional development. And I can't wait for that to happen. I think to be honest it's something that we missed and it's long overdue. I still have me own views on the way I'd do that but we'll wait and see what comes out.

Also I think the ELC's not there to punish you. It helps you, it helped us, it put us on the LEAD program. That brought significant safety culture change to our business. And to be honest we're still working on that program now. And I believe there's more courses coming up shortly for some of our newer supervisors.

The negatives. There's a feel and again this isn't just me, I've spoke to other contractors, but there's a feel that if you've not got everything right you get hammered for it. If the I's are not dotted, your T's are not crossed, something's not signed off correctly you will get hammered, there's no doubt about it. And particularly for us as a business that puts so much work in our compliance and safety and our safety culture and trying to do the right thing we feel this infer. And we also feel that if a worker makes a mistake it's still the company's problem.

You know we do a lot of work with our guys and skills assessments on compliance observations, and we give 'em direction on how to do the task and sometimes they come into work and they make a mistake and we still feel that's our problem. And look I still have an issue with self reporting. I don't think self reporting works. I think someone said to me once that it's like driving down the street in your car and speeding and then realizing you're speeding and going to the police station to tell them you speed and accept your fine. It just doesn't work.

I honestly believe if the ESO wants to look at that we need to do something different in our industry. So that's my views on fronting the commission. I do think the ELC gives us that accountability. I do think we need something better in it.

I wanna thank you to listening to my side of it. If you do have any questions please just put 'em in the chat and I'll end a change afterward so thank you again. Cheers.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks to Noel. And as he mentioned if you do have questions for him or any of our panel members use the chat box. We've got those trade equipment vouchers going. And it's really easy. Type your name, your question, and we'll get to as many as we can during the chat a little later on.

Time now to welcome in Michael Gibson Director of Fields Services from the ESO. He's going to talk about arc flash. Michael's had 35 years of experience in the electrical industry and 20 years at the ESO. His role is to lead the delivery of inspection and enforcement strategies to enforce and monitor compliance of duty holders with electrical safety legislation. And today it's all about arc flashes. Michael.

Michael Gibson

Thank you Chris. Good morning everybody. And I'd like to thank Noel for doing your presentation Noel and sharing that experience. I've only got a short amount of time so I really wanna hit a couple of key marks and key appointments around this arc flash management.

The critical part of it is about the understanding that working on your knee and is the hazard. And everything else associated with that is the risk. So we really want you to start thinking about what is your undertaking? What is your business doing? What equipment and what size is the equipment your industry or you're working in? Whether you're doing commercial, industrial, and are your workers required to access equipment with really high fault current?

Testing and fault finding, the type of activities you're doing where you are working on or near these parts is where you need to rethink your safety process around how we gonna manage this risk.

Working on or near and it's a constant message that we're gonna have, is the same risks and rule require the same controls? So whether you're doing live work or what we used to call enjoyers work, or whether you're purely just working near live exposed parts, same risks same controls. So what have we got there?

Electrical work. I can't even read it. Okay. Our main, I've already said that, right. The process are in place. Now working on or near energized parts, oh I should've brought my glasses. Sorry. Sorry. Oh goodness. Am I still on the camera somewhere? Yeah sorry sorry about that. Back on track, right. Now we know you're working on or near live parts is the activity we're talking about. We can't always follow that message where we always talk about working de-energized. That's our constant message to everybody and we'll never drop that message. Working de-energized as much as you can is the priority.

But in our industry in the work we do as electricians there's a lot of activities that we can't do de-energize. We know what they are. We often work de-energize. We worked to prove an isolation point. We do testing and fault finding often on live equipment. And we do actions in regard to racking out circuit breakers and switching and isolating equipment so. We just wanna talk about what actually an arc flash or an arc fault is.

Often it is the break down that will compromise of insulation through equipment damage and contamination. It's a work practice, and I wanna go back to that. It can be a failure during a switching of a device. And often it's caused by poor maintenance in older equipment. So you're getting hot contacts, loose joints that are gonna get hot and you're gonna get a runaway current and it's gonna file. So the biggest one we wanna talk about is the work practice. It's you need a face between your worker and working on that energized part. Got it. Over the last 12 months we've had 10 arc flash injuries that we've been investigating. A lot of those injuries and a lot of the arc comes investigations have identified that the workers and the workers and the workers activities has been associated for that incident. So it's about a failure in a system, it's a failure in a process. And a couple of other slides ahead we'll look at some of those circumstances that are causing this failure. Arc flash hazard management. It's the priority up front to understand what is the hazard. So if I think about the hazard, how what do I need to put in place?

So I'm looking at identifying the assets that I'm expecting my workers to work on. And they could be the switchboards. If I'm a maintenance company, the switchboards that I'm working on. If I do a lot of domestic work, if I do a lot of industrial and large style commercial construction that type of thing, then I'd talk about this quantifying the hazard and calculating the arc flash incident energy. That is a very complex process but it's really basic. The bigger the equipment you're working on the greater the potential energy's gonna be there and the greater risk for you and your workers and harm if something goes wrong.

So we want you to assess that risk and we want you to develop those risk treatments. Everyone knows our risk assessment process and the hierarchy of controls. We start elimination we go right down to PPE. And that's the same with arc flash risk management. Wherever we can we'll always, the ESO is always recommending de-energizing equipment, but you need to work out what are those controls and where your hierarchy of controls can fit with the work you do. It's not always possible to work de-energize. We've always spoken about testing and fault finding so that's not always possible. It's not always possible for you to substitute the equipment you're gonna be working on. It's there, you've walked into a business.

So you've gotta work on that equipment. You can use barriers, you can use other controls, and you can start putting safe systems that work together. It's really really important we always expect PPE and the PPE's gotta be suitable for the environment you're working in. And the PPE will be affected by the level of arc flash risk. But you've gotta remember it's only there to reduce our injury to a curable level. It's not there to save your life. It's really critical it's a very important factor.

Okay. This one of the critical areas that we've probably identified in some of the investigations we've undertaken. It's the human factors that are affecting good process and procedures. It's the lack of training, it's the errors or mistakes occurring, it's complacency.

And we've spoken about it today whether there's mental health or distraction issues, all your workers need to understand that sometimes they're gonna have to step back. They're gonna have to walk away from a task 'cause it's just gonna be too risky and you're gonna be too distracted to do it properly. The last thing we wanna talk about is the actual legislation.

So I think it's really important for people to understand working on energized equipment is prohibited except for a very defined set of circumstances. So don't forget it's prohibited, it's against the law. Those circumstances described in section 18 of the regulations.

If you can't meet those circumstances and you can't put in place your decent risk assessment, your persons are competent, you got safe systems at work, then you are not meeting legislative requirements and you do risk prosecution. The Electrical Safety Act and Regulations calls up quality codes of practice. There's some really good standards out there about safe working on low voltage electrical installations. We highly recommend that people access those documents.

The last point is that working on or near live parts is the same risk. Put your treatments in place. And manage that risk. And if I had my glasses on that would've gone a lot better.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks Gibbo.

Michael Gibson

Thank you.

Chris Bombolas

Maybe that's an important lesson that we all need to remember is take our glasses to work Michael okay? Thanks Gibbo.

He's joined the panel as has the commissioner for Electrical Safety Greg Skyring. Remember if you've got a question to ask our panel members we've got Paul, Donna, Noel, Michael, and Greg.

There's three 100 dollar trade equipment vouchers to give away. I know we've got a number of questions already. All you need to do is type your name and question in the Q and A box to the right of your screen. Let's head to the questions.

And the first one is from Alex to Paul. Paul if you are worried about a mate who seems depressed or not himself what should you do if you have asked if they are okay and they've just brushed you off. This happens quite a lot.

Paul Spinks

Yes Chris look that is a big one. And especially on days like today R U OK day mates will often ask mates if they're okay and of course the mate will invariably turn around and say something smart back.

In fact I was at a mine and exactly that happened on R U OK last year when someone turned around and asked his mate if he was okay. And his mate turned around and told him to get stuffed.

So of course that's what mates do, they have a bit of fun with that question. But we've gotta be a bit clever than that and a bit smarter than that, we've gotta delve deeper. So I would say that's where the help thing comes in. We've gotta deepen, we've gotta find ways to get into people's psyche and deepen up the conversation.

So if you are with your mate and you're talking about R U OK day just sit there and chat and get deeper. Be vulnerable yourself, create a trust environment. And you'll find once you start sharing, they start sharing, and you can get into places and get underneath people. And from there you can start taking actions and put plans into place to look after your mate. So yeah. Thanks.

Chris Bombolas

All right this one's from Veronica. The reported incidents of electrical apprentices receiving an electrical shock has increased over the past two years. How can an electrical contractor contribute to reducing this type of incident and ensure an electrical apprentice is safe at work? Who wants this one? Gibbo.

Michael Gibson

Thanks Chris.

Chris Bombolas

You don't need your glasses for this either.

Michael Gibson

No I can relax now. Really good question.

And I think it's really important to understand in the first six months of an apprenticeship they cannot work anywhere near there's a risk of receiving electric shock. And then following that

I think you really gotta have a strong program about mapping their competency against their supervision against their training. If you don't get those three right there's that risk. So they've gotta learn to test and fault find, it's part of the process, but I think it's gotta be something that's developed in stages.

So yeah get their competency tracked, get their supervision and make sure their supervisors are competent. And then you can track that work program to manage that risk.

Chris Bombolas

All right. Another question here is from Tim to Noel. Noel did your risk assessment procedure change as well? You gave us you know what you guys did and how you managed it, and how does your business handle specific tasks when arc flash risk is known and or unknown?

Noel Cosgrove

So yes risk assessment did slightly change. I will say a risk assessment was done. A step was missed in this particular process. Look we mainly do work on new installations. So. The way we reduce our arc flash risk is through our authority to switch. So we just won't allow anyone to switch a supply where we believe there's a risk of arc flash so them high fault currents. And that's what we do.

We've mapped that down into a current rating and we put a procedure in our business to do it. So it really has reduced that risk for us as a business. And as I said I think I said you know we potentially did stop a potential issue if that in the last two years just by putting that process in place.

Chris Bombolas

Yeah we've got a number of questions but we're running out of time. So let's make this the last question of the morning. And we thank you all for joining us and putting in your questions. This is the last one we'll answer here. We will get back to other questions online.

What strategies, this comes from Jaden, what strategies or resources can contractors utilize when training their tradespeople to educate, manage, support their apprentices effectively? SO let's get it right. We're talking about getting things right. Gibbo.

Michael Gibson

Yes Chris. I think I mean obviously I've previously spoken about understanding legislation is really the important step is what is black and white in legislation. And some of those supporting documents and process and procedures that come off legislation we have really good codes of practice. There's a really good standard about safe work on low voltage electrical installations. And the critical part of the whole process is apprentices learning the process about risk management. 'Cause you can have a lot of process procedures but there's risks that are very much part of thar process.

So manage that risk management procedures and then look at your supervisors and how they are going to interact. Really good supervisor that level at each of the levels and stage that training. So there's competency levels that are achieved by the apprentice and map those competency levels.

Chris Bombolas

All right.

Michael Gibson

Thank you.

Chris Bombolas

Time as I said is of the wing. Thank you for joining us. I would've liked Greg and Donna to get questions but you got off Scott free today so you're lucky in this respect.

Paul if I could just wind up with you. We really appreciate your presentation today, but I think it's important that you just quickly in 30 seconds I'll give you, tell us we love the two second rule where we take time to think about a response so that we take the emotion out of it and we come up with a fresh approach. But help, it's an important word, action and an acronym. Can you explain what the acronym is just one more time quick.

Paul Spinks

Yeah just one more time. So yeah the H stands for look for any signs of hopelessness or helplessness. The E stands for look for a emotional changes. Are people more angry or are they crying or different altered behaviors? Look for any loss, any signs of loss of appetite, loss of connection, loss of friends. And the P is for any physical changes. is their hair changed, is their skin blemished, is there you know dressing you know unusually. They would all be the big ticket items to me that we have to crack them open and dig deep and try and find out what's going on.

Chris Bombolas

Thanks again Paul. We appreciate you taking part today. Your presentation of course being part of the panel. And to Donna and to Michael, Greg and to Noel, thank you again for joining us. We appreciate you input. For you who've watched us at home or at work, thanks.

I hope you got a lot out of this. And if you took part with some of those questions winners of today's 100 dollar trade equipment vouchers will be contacted directly. Now the good news is there's another five 100 dollar trade equipment vouchers up for grabs as part of our Facebook competition that test your electrical knowledge, so it's a little bit harder this one. Get in quick as that ends tomorrow.

Today's webinar was recorded and will be available to watch and share with your friends or colleagues that may have missed it at E-S-O dot Q-L-D dot gov dot A-U. That's also where you'll find a whole heap of other resources and information on electrical safety.

Keep your eye out for an email from us over the next few days to complete a feedback survey about today's event. We really value your feedback.

So if you could spare around two minutes we'd really appreciate that. It helps us formulate events in the future. In this email you'll receive more information on Paul's presentation. And also a reminder to complete the apprentice safety culture survey for your chance to win well we got lots of stuff to win, a 200 dollar trade equipment gift voucher.

Check in with your mate's ladies and gentlemen, that's the message for today. Always always check in with your mates, friends, loved ones, and remember today is R U OK day.

And realistically it's okay not to be okay and to look for help and to offer help. And most importantly work safe, home safe.

[End of Transcript]

Chris Bombolas:

Hello and welcome to the Electricity Safety Summit for 2020. I'm Chris Bombolas from the Office of Industrial Relations. I'll be your host for this very special presentation. It is Electrical Safety Week. And it happens from the 7 to the 11 of September, and it reminds us all that while electricity helps power up our everyday lives, it can be dangerous. The ESO is hosting free digital events focusing on health and safety in the industry, particularly mental health. These events are tailored for industry leaders, electrical workers, contractors, and apprentices. The Electrical Safety Summit is on today and we'll be getting to our very special guests very, very shortly. Tomorrow we have a webinar for electrical contractors and electricians featuring football legend and Australian survivor champion, Matt Rogers, who will discuss challenges he's faced including how he manages stress and personal loss. And on Thursday, the boys from Aussie workwear brand TradeMutt, Dan and Ed, look at stigmas around mental health during a digital session, especially for apprentices and supervisors.

Chris Bombolas:

Today, though is the fourth Electricity Safety Summit following on from a great event last year, where we focused on safety culture in the workplace, it's a shame we can't gather in person like we normally do. However, as we continue to navigate these very extraordinary times, it's fantastic that we can still catch up digitally and make sure that we can have presentations and deliver very important information like we are today. Today, we will be delving deeply into electrical safety in rural and regional Queensland. I'd like to acknowledge Craig Allen, Deputy Director General of the Office of Industrial Relations. Greg Skyring, Commissioner for Electrical Safety in Queensland, Donna Heelan, the Executive Director, Electrical Safety Office, and our guest speakers situated in all different regions of Queensland, including Cairns and Brisbane and across the Tasman in New Zealand.

Chris Bombolas:

So we do have a number of people and guests to get through. If you have any questions throughout the Summit, type your name and question via the chat box to the right of the live stream. We'll ask them during the panel session, which will happen at the end of our presentations. To change the size of your screen, select the four small arrows next to the volume bar at the bottom of your screen. Firstly, I'd like to welcome Craig Allen, the Deputy Director General, Office of Industrial Relations. He joins us in the studio for the official welcome.

Craig Allen:

Welcome to everyone today. Firstly, I would like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we meet and elders past, present and emerging. I'd also like to acknowledge Greg Skyring, Queensland commissioner for electrical safety, Dona Heelan, Executive Director, Electrical Safety Office and members of her team. Our speakers, Dave Burt from Master Electricians, New Zealand. Michelle Taylor from Energy Queensland, Leo Ward from Power and Data Support Services and Christine King from Queensland Country Women's Association. Representatives from industry groups such as the Electrical Trades Union, the National Electrical and Communications Association and Master Electricians Australia and everyone else interested in electrical safety who has dialled in this morning. Again, welcome and hello everyone.

Craig Allen:

These are certainly extraordinary times with parts of Australia in lockdown to control the spread of coronavirus. So far, Queenslanders have done a great job battling COVID-19, but as we continued to deal with the pandemic, this is an Electrical Safety Summit like no other. This year's digital event focuses on a serious issue, electrical safety in rural and regional Queensland. Unfortunately we've seen a number of electrical fatalities and incidents over the past two years in rural Queensland. Often these tragedies involve contact with overhead power lines between machinery or equipment and a failure to properly maintain electrical gear. That's why it's important we have industry gatherings like this annual safety summit to discuss emerging trends and to identify issues which need our urgent attention. As the Deputy Director General of the Office of Industrial Relations thank you for all of your efforts to help us deliver potentially lifesaving messages to the general community and those working in our industry.

Craig Allen:

As you're all aware so much risk can be avoided by taking very basic actions. Yet tragically eight Queenslanders have lost their lives over recent years after receiving electrical shocks while doing everyday things, these people were just doing simple things in and around their homes, digging a hole in the garden, working in the garage, returning to the house after picking fruit, walking around under a high sat house and checking submersible pumps. Clearly the message is not getting through as industry leaders we have to work harder and look at new ways to make sure everyone is fully aware of the dangers of electricity. It's not just the fatalities in our industry. It's the people that are injured in our industry. People who experienced severe arc burns, they have issues for the rest of their lives. So whilst we talk about eight fatalities, which is a number that we can't accept, there are many, many, many hundreds of other injuries that occur in our industry every year.

Craig Allen:

People using everyday appliances and any equipment that powers up workers need to be aware. The Electrical Safety Office has run campaigns, which promote the dangers of working in ceiling spaces, regular electrical housekeeping, using only licensed electrical contractors and installing safety switches on all circuits. It's no fan that at the Electrical Safety Office we're a big fan of safety switches. They're a life-saving device and they're an important device. There's also loads of information on our website on electrical safety for tenants and landlords, regular electrical housekeeping, working near overhead power lines, purchasing and maintaining electrical equipment. And of course most importantly only using licensed electrical contractors.

Craig Allen:

Electrical work is not a do it yourself job. We want to get these important messages out into the community and get everyone thinking and living electrical safety. Make no mistake electricity is an invisible and silent killer and it rarely gives second chances. We're in Electrical Safety Week and as part of that, we are hosting a webinar for electrical contractors tomorrow featuring footy legend, Matt Rogers. On Thursday there's another webinar for apprentices and their supervisors where arc flash survivor Mark will share his harrowing experience. These events are digital and free targeted at key personnel in our industry with people like Mark and Matt Rogers and TradeMutt's, Dan and Ed on board to deliver key messages. For the moment though, I hope you enjoy the Summit and the speakers we have on offer and thank you for making your time available today.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks Craig. As Craig touched on in his address, there have been a number of tragic incidents in regional and rural Queensland recently. And that's why our Summit this year is focusing on that particular issue. Time now to bring in the first of our presenters and we're going to have to head across the ditch to Tasmania, Auckland in fact. And we welcome in Dave Burt. Dave is a registered electrician and the owner and director of Team Cabling that operates in Auckland, Waikato, Wellington and Christchurch. He's also an immediate past board member of Master Electricians, New Zealand. Dave published a book titled Lengthening the Shadow, which details his personal struggle with depression. Dave's message is simple. It's about mates, helping mates and being brave enough to ask the question what's happening in your world? Well, Dave, what's happening in your world.

Dave Burt:

Mostly good stuff. Thanks Chris. And my name's Dave Burt it's a pleasure to be here with you today. Talking about mental health and wellbeing. A subject I've come to know a bit about over the last few years and probably fair to say not by choice that subject picked me. Whenever we're talking to groups, I will always say, if you think you don't know anyone struggling with mental health issues, I'll be betting that you do. And for those of you who do know people, I'll be equally comfortable in saying that for every person you know there are many more you also know. And often those folks don't say anything. And they don't say anything for a bunch of reasons. Some don't feel comfortable talking about it. Others don't want to be judged or defined by this thing that affects their lives. And there are those like me I saw it as a weakness and not something that I coped easily with.

Dave Burt:

If there was just one single thing I would wish for you to take away from today, it would be that everyone has knowledge that you all possess a very powerful gift. And while you may not know you have this gift, just trust me on this you do. And that is the power to give and provide hope and you just have to choose to use that. And I'm going to talk more about that later. I'll give you a quick backstory on me. I'm a sparky, I've been in the industry for 41 years and whenever I hear myself say that out loud, it makes me sound quite old. I don't feel that old. I'm a husband of 37 years, a dad, a granddad, business owner, business partner, work mate, part-time writer, part-time coach. And I certainly love anything to do with cars that go fast. Six years ago, had anyone asked me what depression was, I couldn't have told them.

Dave Burt:

Six years ago, I was living my life 900 miles an hour as I'd always done. My wife always say she gets tired just looking at me, not tired of looking at me. I had endless energy, I had endless optimism, and I had a vision these glory days would go on forever. For me they didn't. They stopped quite abruptly in December, 2014. I became unwell, physically unwell, and I'll tell you it really knocked me. In a short period of time, I lost that abundance of energy I'd taken so much for granted. I lost my appetite and I lost a bunch of weight, probably 15 kilos in a matter of weeks. Over the next five to six months, I genuinely couldn't tell you how many tests and procedures I went through, but it was a lot. And it was during that time, I can let you in on a secret, are you aware there's not a single hole in the human body the medical proficient cannot insert a camera.

Dave Burt:

Now I didn't like any of it, but I really wanted my life back. I was grateful I did find out what it was. Pretty rare thing. I had the surgery and I did get better, but for me it didn't last long. And it seemed to be from the point of my life where everything went wrong, I couldn't cut a break. From the date of the first surgery mid 2015 until now I've been through 21 different surgeries, countless tests and procedures, and quite some weeks in hospital. And slowly, I started to become a quieter version of my old self, but just inwardly and outwardly I went to great measures, trying to hide this thing, desperately, not wanting anyone to know. The fact is that basically depression entered my life just a little at a time. At first you don't notice these things, I got used to it. And then eventually it became a significant issue affecting not only my life, but that of the ones who mean the most to me.

Dave Burt:

And the reason I'm telling you this, I think it's very important to understand it doesn't matter who you are or at what stage you are in your life. None of us are immune from a mental health issue or crisis. Fact is almost 50 per cent of the population can experience a medically diagnosable mental health issue within their lifetime. One in six will experience that within this year. And just like me, almost 20 per cent of males live with a mental health issue, females slightly less. When you're armed with that knowledge and you get an understanding of the size and scale of it, and you take a moment to look around your own mates, family colleagues, you start to get appreciation. It's a big issue, it's right around us, and for many of us we're blind to it. I guess the reason I'm here today, apart from the fact that I was kindly invited and always really happy to shine a light on the subject is because I wrote a book.

Dave Burt:

And I never set out to write a book and certainly not on mental health and wellbeing, I'm just going to briefly share that story. Two and a half years ago, and I'll put two and a half years ago in some perspective for me, I was finally having some treatment for this depression and while life wasn't great there was a glimmer of light and I was hanging on to that with both hands. And it was also the first time in some years, I'd managed to go five straight months without a surgeon sticking a knife in me. I was pretty proud of that. However, this particular morning as I walked through the bathroom and paused to stand on the bathroom scales, I had three digits flashing back at me.

Dave Burt:

Now I was okay with two but three that was pretty confronting. Long story short with that, it ended up with my business partner suggesting we join the gym. I said, "Dan that's a great idea, leave that to me." And he said, "Dave there's a new gym opened up just down the road." And I said, "I'll check it out." I jumped in my truck and I drove all of 250 meters down the road and parked. And I know I should have run that or at the very least walked it. But I walked through the doors of the Ultimate Body Transformation gym, which I thought was an absolutely fantastic name. Then the owner, great guy, not only talked me into joining the gym, but he also talked me to sign up for a 10 week gym challenge. Now I assured him I wouldn't be able to do this. And he assured me that there was four weeks until mid-January when it started and providing I did a bit of fitness training in the between time I'd be good to go.

Dave Burt:

I signed up. I paid my money and I have to say that four weeks disappeared in a blur of good food indulgence and no exercise. And I'll also tell you, it was one of the toughest things I've ever done, physically. Mondays and Tuesdays with my trainer, upper body Mondays and Tuesdays was leg days. And I came to hate leg days they hurt. Wednesdays, no gym, but you had to run 6Ks. Something that I hadn't done for years. And Thursday, they had a thing called 20 minutes channels day. Now, 20 minutes how hard can that be. Up until that point in my life I had not realized there was so many places in the human body you could actually sweat from. But toughest for me was Friday's CrossFit. Now I don't know if anyone does or has done CrossFit, but I can tell you for a 56 year old who was overweight and unfit, I could barely coordinate chewing gum and walking at the same time, it was incredibly challenging. But I have to say, I eventually I got a bit fitter. I got better at it.

Dave Burt:

And now it's a very important part of my life. And every Friday I'll be at that gym just after 5:00 working pretty hard with a bunch of people I've come to know. And for me it wouldn't matter if it was the middle of winter and I was running shuttles outside in the pouring rain or in the high heat of summer, pushing a sled full of weights up the centre of the gym. There's never ever a Friday that I don't take just a minute to look around and think how lucky am I to be doing this. Because from a physical perspective, after what I've been through and continue to go through, I don't take that for granted. And from a mental wellbeing perspective, I certainly don't take it for granted, very strong correlation between physical activity and mental wellbeing. I don't need to read it, I don't need anyone to tell me, I know it's fact.

Dave Burt:

Anyway, the part, where the book actually started is everyday you had to run 3ks. Apart from Wednesdays, when needed to do your six. Now that very first morning I was pretty motivated. I set my alarm for 4:30. I had dressed in clothes fit for an athlete. They were all shiny and brand new, they had little wee pumas on them. And I left the house mid-January, that beautiful scent of summer in the air, it was dark it was warm and incredibly quiet. I had no music with me and the only sound was my feet on the pavement and that very early bird song. And I had to say I found that a very peaceful place to be. Normally, I wake and then stuff is coming at me 900 miles an hour text, phone and it goes until the end of the day.

Dave Burt:

And when I got home that first morning, there's some stuff rattling around in my head, and I wrote it in the notebook I keep by the bed, I didn't want to forget. Tuesday after my run, there was more and I wrote that down. On a Wednesday after 6ks there was more still. And remember that Wednesday evening, I went to bed pretty early. My body was so incredibly sore after doing things to muscles I didn't even know I had. Got to probably about 8:30 and I was still scratching around looking for my basket. And in bed I remember taking out that notebook and reading those 10 or so entries and for whatever reason, I just took out my laptop and started writing. And I wrote the next day and the next day, I wrote every day probably for a week before I read what I've written. And I have to say a fair bit of it is pretty lighthearted. I don't take myself too seriously, but there was some stuff in there I want to explore further. In some ways I wanted to see how the story was going to end.

Dave Burt:

So I made a promise to myself, I would write every day at the gym challenge and I did. I wrote almost every day of the 70, probably apart from five maybe eight days in towards that last few weeks. And it was a period where that depression bit me, and it bit me pretty hard. And it'll do that sometimes in the quiet of the night, something unlocks the cage and let's it out and I just have to deal with that. But I'll tell you the difference now having been through it. I have faith and belief I can deal with it. And the difference now is I have hope. And hope is something I will never take for granted again. And that's also that very powerful gift every one of you possesses, should you choose to use that power to give and provide hope.

Dave Burt:

Anyway, I finished the challenge. I lost a bunch of weight. I was pretty happy about that. I was a lot fitter and from a mental wellbeing perspective it was a huge revelation to me. I also had the makings of what turned out to be a book. And it was my wife who asked me, "Are you going to do anything with that?" And I said, "Why would I do that? I've spent five years of my life hiding this thing from the world." And I think in that moment, I understood that it was part of the problem. The problem that keeps it a secret and that didn't sit well with me. So I did publish it and as a result of that I was asked to speak at a bunch of events. And as much as I knew about depression, what I could do to make it better. I didn't really know much about the wider issue. So I did a bit of research and I will have to apologize the numbers I'm giving you are only New Zealand numbers.

Dave Burt:

I did try and research the Australian numbers, but because it's put up via state, I couldn't corroborate them all together. To give you a basis of comparison, our populations 4.8 million. Last year in New Zealand, we lost 353 lives. Now that's just the number of people that died on our roads. And that's a tragedy and you'll hear about it in the media every day. In the same timeframe, we lost 353 lives on the road, 685 New Zealanders decided for whatever reason living was too much and they couldn't do it. 498 of them were male, 187 were female. Disproportionately high number of male to female. And if you drill into those facts, you going to find that for each one of those woman that we tragically lose each year to suicide, approximately 15 per cent presented at hospital for it is classified as self-harm. The males, the corresponding number is less than three.

Dave Burt:

Now it's a really important point that I'm trying to raise because you need to understand that males often do not reach out for help and on occasion they act. And when they act, they act with effectiveness. Your good mate colleague, someone who means something in your life could be doing it really tough. You cannot rely on them to tell you. If you're drawn to those facts even further, you start to find that my own industry construction, it's an industry that I love. It has the highest incidence of suicide of any other categorization in New Zealand, higher than forestry or farming, not much higher but it is high and I believe the same is true for Australia. And if you drill even further into that statistic, you'll actually start to find one of the things that really, really gets me is that our industry from a health and safety perspective, it's such an important part of what we do. But each year in our sector, we lose six times more workers to suicide than you do to workplace accidents.

Dave Burt:

And when you hear that, you have to ask the question, what the hell are we doing about. Deeply ingrained in our sector as a mini male dominated workspace, is there exists an attitude and a culture of, "man up." of "toughen up" and of, "harden up." And even if those words aren't said with the same frequency or volume as in previous generations, I tell you that that attitude exists, exists as loudly as if it was shattered from the rooftops. In my opinion, we need to redefine what tough is because in my opinion, tough is maybe noticing when something's not quite right with one of your mates and trusting your gut and asking the question. And tough is maybe having one of those conversations that we as blokes don't do that easily. And tough quite simply is looking out for your mates when they need you.

Dave Burt:

So take it from me. It's a big and widespread issue. None of us are immune. And it probably leads to a very, very fair question. What is it, mental health issue or crisis? I can only really talk of depression a thing that affected my life, and if you've never experienced something like that I'm very happy for you. And if you've never experienced it, it can be very challenging to understand what it is like for those affected. And if I were to explain depression as the thing that affected my life, the best way I can is I have a very clear recollection of standing on top of St. Paul's Cathedral in London. And it was 2007 the heat of the Rugby World Cup was a very overcast morning the clouds were really thick and dense, and I remember really grey and low. You could almost touch them. And as I looked out over London, it was like looking at a black and white photo. But there was something about those dense British clouds that stripped very remnant of colour from the light spectrum and just left grey.

Dave Burt:

And I think that's what depression did, it took the colour from my life and just leave grey. And not continue with that it stole from me all my tomorrows, all the things I would normally look forward to and enjoy. Gradually, I couldn't see those things and gradually my future became irrelevant. And I cannot express how important it is to see a future. That same afternoon we booked to go on the London Eye and it would have been probably three in the afternoon is that carriage near at the top of that big revolving wheel an amazing view of London. But it was hard to believe it was the same city because at three o'clock, the clouds had dissipated. The sun was now out and London was displayed in all it's glorious vibrant colour. And it got me to thinking that earlier that morning, when all I could see was grey. The fact is all those colours were there they existed that morning and in that moment, it's just I couldn't see them because the clouds prevented that.

Dave Burt:

And that morning, it wouldn't have mattered how long I stared, how intently I stared or even how desperately I wanted to see those colours I was now seeing, I just couldn't because the clouds prevented that. It steals the good and it leaves the grey. And it wasn't that there wasn't good stuff in my life. There was marvellous stuff and in my future grandchildren, I was blind to it. And I have to say at times an evil constant when you have it in your life because when it exists there, day after day and week after week and into the months, a very challenging place in which to exist. And when I'm at the gym now I can hear that phrase occasionally of like, "pain is temporary." I get that in the context of the gym, for those living with depression, temporary is a very challenging concept.

Dave Burt:

And when I am at the gym on occasion I'll gravitate to that evil piece of equipment called a spin bike, and I can be quite mean to myself. And I'll set the dial for about 30 minutes, I'll pedal pretty hard and I know I'm working. And then when crack the dial the next little bit for the next 20 minutes. I wouldn't say I'm in pain, but man, I've got to concentrate to stick in it. And for the last 10 minutes, when I crank it, now I've really got to concentrate because it's hurting. And for the last five, when you crack that dial you actually have to get off the seat and drive with your legs. And even a minute into that I tell you, my lungs are burning and my legs are screaming. It physically hurts.

Dave Burt:

And I have the power to make that stop, all I have to do is reach down and turn the dial back and I can make it stop. But before I touch that dial I always ask the same question. Does it hurt as much as that anguish and pain of depression and so far it's never been close. So mostly I'll leave the dial and I'll push myself. It's good for me physically and mentally. But I can tell you an hour on a spin bike hurts a whole bunch less than an hour living with depression. So take it, none of us are immune big issue widespread. For those affected, trust me, it can be incredibly debilitating.

Dave Burt:

So it's probably a very fair question is why is it that people don't reach out for help when they need it, and we know they don't? As much as I've thought about that I can answer that question. Looking back. I thought this thing was going to fix itself.

Dave Burt:

That was never going to happen. I was fortunate my wife recognized it for what it was, she was the one that got me in front of my doc. And it was a really good starting place. And to be fair, I got to know her pretty well. She'd been busy fixing all the physical stuff. She's probably got a holiday house on me.

Dave Burt:

It wasn't just one individual thing too, some of the stuff she put in place for me... Some I had side effects I didn't like and she'd ring me at work and say, "Dave, how's it going?" Or tell me, she'd say, "Come back in and see me, we'll work on it." She put me in touch with people, professionals, who could make a difference, psychologists. And again, initially some of those people I didn't gel with, but I really wanted to be well again and I'm pleased I didn't give up and I eventually found my way to people that could make a difference.

Dave Burt:

Family, always depend on. Mates, there's a bunch of mates who helped immensely and I've never told me, and I should've told them. I should have given them all credit. And for me that gym challenge was an incredibly important part of getting well again, and staying well again. It gives me structure, it takes my mind away from other things. And I guess just the physical activity, that was really good for keeping good mental health.

Dave Burt:

If I was to walk out of here now and break my leg, I know I probably wouldn't get up and try and walk on it. Pretend it didn't happen, and view my leg as fixed itself. Because that's ridiculous. If I did break my leg I'd probably get those interventions, surgery to pin the bone, a cast to give it stability, and crutches for mobility and maybe some drugs for inflammation and pain. And you see, none of those individual treatments have fixed my leg because under the cast the bone is still broken. Those treatments are just there to support my body while it has time to heal. And there's a lot in that analogy and the treatments for depression that they have in common. Not one individual thing, it's a bunch of stuff working together coupled with time.

Dave Burt:

If I would ask the question now of, and I can't see anyone put their hand up, but how many people would know how to do CPR right now? Certainly it's a most electrical audience, almost everyone does. And I always say to construction audiences, "If you feeling unwell, go and stand next to a sparky, they'll save your life." Pretty much as we do at the end of every project, when they've eaten all the program up and leave it to us to get it over the line. The point is if I had a heart attack, anyone within a distance could attempt to save my life because someone showed them how to do it. They removed the mystery of it. And just because you learn how to do it doesn't mean oh goody, I want to try that. You don't do these things out of choice. And it's a bit like this issue around mental wellbeing, particularly in our sector.

Dave Burt:

It's not that we don't want to help our mates, we're just not good at it. We don't know how to. And that did get me to thinking that maybe a good starting point is if we had a phrase we could use. And if you use that phrase at the right time in the right situation, the person you were talking to would automatically know if there's anything going down they can tell you. And for me, that phrase would quite simply be, "What's happening in your world?" Because it's an open question. What's happening in your world? And I'd like to think if we did use that phrase, maybe a bit more often at the right time in the right situation, maybe we might have a few less occasions when after someone had taken the dreaded decision to end their agony, we wouldn't be left wondering. There's nothing I wouldn't have said, there's nothing I wouldn't have done if only I knew.

Dave Burt:

I won't keep you much longer, but I do have a question. And I'd like you to just think in your own mind, if I was to ask you to choose between one of two things, one of those things being bravery and one being vulnerability, what would you choose? And you could be forgiven for thinking that they're two very vastly different things. But they have more in common than you would think, they coexist almost like the flip side of the same coin. Because when you consider the woman who might save the child from drowning, incredibly brave act, at the same time that woman has put herself in a very vulnerable position. In 2003 in Afghanistan, New Zealand's corporal Willie Apiata was sleeping on a bonnet. A rocket blew into the ground critically injuring two of his comrades. Well he assessed the situation and knew immediately his commanding officer would die and bleed out if he didn't act immediately. When he put him over his shoulder and crossed 70 meters of open ground under heavy enemy fire to what was almost his own certain death, he ended up awarded the Victoria Cross for gallantry. Harder to imagine a braver act, yet at the same time a human being in a more vulnerable situation, than Willie Apiata as he crossed every one of those 70 meters.

Dave Burt:

And I guess what I am saying, if you too maybe take the opportunity to be just that little bit vulnerable yourself, and ask that question, that brave question, "What's happening in your world?" I can almost promise you with 100% certainty, it will not be long before you too get to utilize that powerful gift you all possess. That being the power to give and provide hope. And as I said at the start, you just have to choose to use it.

Dave Burt:

Look, I thank you for listening, and I hope it's given you some insight, but more importantly what power you have to make a difference simply by just being a bit vulnerable and a bit brave. Thank you.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks, Dave. And for those who may need help, or would like to offer someone important or close to them help, you can see on your screen some of those very vital services that are available to those who are struggling and battling, not just physically, but mentally so. Very important, take note of those.

Chris Bombolas:

And today, thank you very much, some very poignant messages. Learning the depression stole your life, or stole your tomorrows, that it's important to never give up. These are life lessons, not just about mental health. Family and friends are important, vital, should be there, should be in your corner. They are in your corner, but quite often we don't go to that corner. We go to the neutral corner, because we're blokes and we don't go to the corner that has our family and friends and those who are supporting us.

Chris Bombolas:

And the new definition of tough, according to Dave, is looking out for your mates. Again, very important messages that we should all take back to our workplaces, back to our families, back to our communities. And I think the most important lesson that I learned were five very simple words, we touched at it at the start, Dave touched at it at the end, and I'll remind you all about it. It's a very short phrase and something that could save someone's life. "What's happening in your world?"

Chris Bombolas:

Time now for the second of our presenters, and let's move the focus towards the Electrical Safety Office and the initiatives and what they're doing in this space. And I'd like to welcome to the podium, the Executive Director of Electrical Safety in Queensland, Donna Heelan.

Donna Heelan:

Thanks Chris. And thanks Dave, for sharing such an important message, which I know resonates both across New Zealand and Australia. I've read your book, and I can tell you for those that are interested, it's a very easy and funnily entertaining yet challenging read. So I would recommend if you get the time to certainly seek out Dave's book and have a read. It sends such a great message, particularly in areas like construction that Dave's spoken about.

Donna Heelan:

I'd like to acknowledge all of our speakers today for taking the time to come and talk about the issue of electrical safety in our homes and our workplaces. I'd like to acknowledge the commissioner for electrical safety, and I'm happy that online we've got members from the ETU, NIKA, Master Electricians and Master Builders. And thanks everyone else for taking the time for joining us this morning.

Donna Heelan:

Electrical Safety Week is a really important event, and taking the time out of your busy day sends a message about your commitment to your workplaces, your friends, your family, and your kids. The electrical industry in Queensland is critical for our everyday way of life. It powers our workplaces, our schools, our hospitals, and the little things that we often take for granted. Our air conditioners in summer, our computers that we rely on daily, and even our mobile phones. I'm not sure about some of you, but I'd like to throw mine away some days. But it's certainly something that we use in everyday life.

Donna Heelan:

I'm not going to talk forever. I can, but I won't. For those of you that like numbers, I thought I'd give you a quick update about where we're sitting in the electrical industry across Queensland. We are approximately 12,000 electrical contractors and 56,000 electrical workers licensed in Queensland. During the last financial year between 2019 and 2020 the Electrical Safety Office responded to 1,164 electrical incidents. We conducted 1,272 assessments in industry. Completed 2,369 audits and issued 1,929... Sorry, I'll start that again. 1,921 enforcement notices. One of these 1,164 electrical incidents sadly was a fatality. This is one fatality too many.

Donna Heelan:

I wanted to touch briefly about what the Electrical Safety Office team is doing, and the broader team of the Office of Industrial Relations in relation to electrical safety plan for Queensland and the areas that we are currently focusing on. We're working to improve electrical safety for regional Queensland, focusing on areas that are overrepresented in the incident data, to deliver both engagement and compliance activities. In the coming months, COVID pending, we're going to focus our engagement and compliance activities in the Isaac, Hinchinbrook, Mount Isa, Cloncurry, Carpentaria and Gladstone areas. These activities will include key priority areas, which incorporate contact with overhead lines, which I'm sure Christine will speak about, safety switches and the importance of having them on all your circuits, the risk of unlicensed work, both to yourself, your children and your home, working near energized equipment, and buying and maintaining safe electrical equipment in Queensland.

Donna Heelan:

Whilst talking about working safely near energized equipment, and I think it's been mentioned earlier today, I'd encourage you if you haven't to take the time to watch Mark's story. It's a compelling story about the risks of working near energized parts, and if you haven't seen it please find it on our website or by Googling Mark's story arc flash, and take the time to watch it.

Donna Heelan:

We are highlighting the importance of property owner and landlord... Sorry, property owner and tenant electrical safety. Our webinar in recent weeks had almost 1,500 registrations, and we shared the important messages about electrical safety for landlords. And we're partnering with the residential tenancies authority to continue this important dialogue.

Donna Heelan:

We are ensuring that we promote compliance and electrical safety across Queensland while using all of our powers that come to us by a legislation, and all of the powers delegated by the regulator. In recent weeks we've successfully made an application to the Brisbane Magistrates Court for an injunction against a corporation who repeatedly failed to comply with improvement notices issued by the inspectorate. This was someone who carried on unlicensed electrical contracting, even after repeated attempts of the office to get him to cease to do so. We are targeting unlicensed electrical work. I'm sure you'd all agree, unlicensed electrical work is dangerous and puts Queenslanders at risk of injury and sadly death.

Donna Heelan:

Since March this year, the electrical safety inspectorate have issued 112 enforcement notices and issued penalty notices in excess of $42,000 for unlicensed electrical work. This is an area we will continue to focus on, but one I'm asking for your help. As the leaders of this industry I'd like you to be involved to ensure that people and property across Queensland are safe. You can do this by reporting any non-compliant or unlicensed work you see in your day to day activities as those on the ground. Please let us know through our website or by calling our 1-300 number and we will follow up any of those inquiries to deal with this issue head-on.

Donna Heelan:

We're thinking differently in how we engage in areas that are overrepresented in the electrical injury and fatality data. For example, we're sharing the critical messages about living and working safely around electricity in regional North Queensland. We've partnered with the Queensland Country Women's Association. The enthusiasm that the QCWA have for taking action on this issue has been absolutely impressive. And you will soon hear from the remarkable Christine King, state president of the Queensland Country Women's Association.

Donna Heelan:

To end, I encourage that you all share the events happening as part of electrical safety week. As Chris mentioned, we have the electrical contractor webinar tomorrow and the apprentices and supervisors webinar on Thursday morning. One thing I did neglect to mention was about safety in our homes, and I'll just backtrack a little bit. Changing culture about electrical safety starts with our children. And another focus area, which I meant to mention earlier and it slipped my mind, and Mel will speak about later today, about how we can change that safety culture starting with the young children that go to school and come home and educate their parents on a daily basis. I leave you with this, the more people we can engage as a group, as an industry, as a community, the more we can ensure that Queenslanders can safely work and live around electricity.

Donna Heelan:

Again, thank you for joining us here today.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks Donna. The irony that our kids will be teaching us about electrical safety. Interesting synopsis and situation to arise, but sometimes through the eyes of children we see a different perspective. So get them young and teach them about electrical safety.

Chris Bombolas:

Donna mentioned that one of our guests, and she is our next guest, is Christine King, president of the Queensland Country Women's Association. And of course our Summit in 2020 is all about electrical safety in regional and rural Queensland, and I could think of no better association than the QCWA to talk about what's happening in the bush and on the land. They have many struggles. Drought, weather, you name it. They struggle with it all, and yet come through time and time again as the backbone of Australia.

Chris Bombolas:

Christine has been a member of the WCWA for 26 years, and is going to talk to us today about the importance of safety in the home. Welcome, Christine.

Christine King:

Good morning and thank you very much, Chris. Yes, it is so important. I think safety with electricity does start in the home. And we know that perhaps our generation might be well aware of it but younger people starting up as a family in their home with young children, I think it's a very good reminder to go over these things again. And I have a series of slides coming up, which would be self-explanatory. But it's very important that we look at this from a grassroots level. I represent 4,000 women and their families across Queensland, and the vast majority of those women live in rural and remote Queensland. And it's quite a different lifestyle out there. Distance means nothing to them, they'll drive 200k to go to a meeting.

Christine King:

But they're also the women that look after the family. They look out for the husband, the workers on their properties. And we did join with the electrical safety commission with doing an electrical safety checklist last year, which I believe you can find on Facebook and on the website for the electrical safety board. And it's a very quick checklist. Equipment safety, overhead power lines, shocks and tingles, and safety switches. And we've circulated these posters right throughout our network, all throughout Queensland, through our halls, through to our members farm sheds, to their houses. It's just that wake up call. And some of these items are going to be in the slides for people just to have a refresher, but I think it's very important that we start at that grassroots level and educate people about electricity. It's something you can't see. And I think young children perhaps don't understand it, and as Donna just mentioned, it's very important that we start with the children. So we can roll the slides if you like. And I'm not going to talk through them, I think that everyone's capable of picking up from the picture, the importance of each slide.

Christine King:

I have a mechanic out there who's going to do this.

Chris Bombolas:

Yeah, it's happening in the background. We can see the slides coming through and some of the tips of what to do and what not to do, Christine.

Christine King:

Very good. Very good. So it's all about that safety with power and cords and plugs.

Christine King:

We're looking for the wet conditions again in Queensland. We haven't had them for a while. Oh yes. Yes. And I think coming into Christmas, people with Christmas lights they need to not overload the boards and plug in Father Christmas too many times to the same point.

Christine King:

Everyone has computer equipment at home now.

Chris Bombolas:

And I guess the remoteness of people in the country where they don't have access like we do in the city, as easily as we do in the city, to electricians and contractors is an important factor, Christine.

Christine King:

I think that this is a huge issue that we probably haven't recognized or addressed. But if you've got to drive 150k or 200k to go into town to actually get something fixed, there would be a lot of home handymen out there that might believe that that would be the way to fix something. And that's something, I think, that is worthy of a very serious conversation of how we do this. Because we all know how often things break down, and farmers are great mechanic, home mechanics on everything, and this is a high risk area. We'd love some stormy weather, and we know to get off the telephone when the storms come.

Chris Bombolas:

This is an important one for the season that's just gone by, of course heaters and the dangers that they can potentially have.

Christine King:

Oh yes. I remember as a child that the wind blew through the window and the tablecloth caught onto the heater and caught fire. And my mother ended up slapping the fire out very fast. And it's something that, as a very young child, I do remember that instance. And it's just grassroots stuff. I think that we, as country women, are very aware of being very practical and a lot of common sense. But sometimes we think we can do everything, and our men can do everything. And this is a high risk area, I think, out in these remote areas because they are so isolated to have anything fixed. And there's also a cost involved. And with the drought being for so long around, and everything has a cost attached to it, and that is of great concern to us, of the safety of people. And how we address that, I think, is a very worthy conversation.

Christine King:

So I do encourage people to go onto the website for the electrical safety office and download the electrical safety checklist and put it up in your workplace, in your sheds, in your buildings, everywhere. Just as a reminder. It's very easy. We did it so that it was very easy. I don't know whether you can see, does that work if I hold it up or not? I'm not too sure. But that's what it looks like, and it's a very quick and easy tool, and a very beneficial tool. And we thank the electrical safety office for working with us on that project.

Chris Bombolas:

How important is it, and I don't want to appear sexist, that the Women's Association and the wives and partners of those very determined farmers and proud of farmers, get important safety messages to them? Because quite often they have the "She'll be right," attitude. "I can do this, no need to do that." How important is it for you guys then to reinforce the fact that, "Hey, we probably need to seek an electrician or an expert to fix this or to help with this problem?"

Christine King:

Oh, I just can't reinforce that enough. I know that when we started this safety checklist they said it was the wives of the farmers that were going to get the message across. Because literature that comes in that's probably too involved or too many pages, the farmers just don't have the time or the interest in reading multiple pages and they just throw it in the bin. It's too complicated. So this is why we came back to the one page that would perhaps attract their attention. And it was easy for the women in the family to understand, to reinforce. Up in the Atherton Tablelands I think they had an extra meeting about electrical safety, and they were talking about just one thing that was damaged electrical extension leads can cause so much trouble. So just identifying one thing is a great tick box to get that to happen.

Christine King:

But we've gone right through all our buildings. We have 230 buildings in Queensland, and they've all been electrically checked that they have the safety switch. And this is one of the major things that we've been talking about this past year at our meetings, is the electrical safety switch. And that's very important. And some of our power boards are very old and the safety switches don't look like the new ones, but the ladies are finding them one way or another. And so I think we're developing another brochure with pictures of all the vintage safety switches that might be in power boxes, because they need to be checked regularly.

Chris Bombolas:

Very important messages, and we thank you for your participation in the summit. You can take a break now before we get back to the panel session and some more questions.

Christine King:

Thank you very much, Chris.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, let's move on to the next of our presenters. And who doesn't like new and emerging technology? I love something that's new. I probably don't know how to use it, and will never ever learn how to use it, but if it's shiny and new I love it. And to talk about new and emerging technology, it's time to bring in Michelle Taylor from Energy Queensland. And Michelle is an active member of the ESO Electrical Equipment Advisory Committee, and the Standards Australia's Renewable Energy Standards Committee. She has a wealth of experience in renewable energy and energy storage technologies, including distributed energy technologies. Welcome, Michelle and thanks for joining us in electricity safety week 2020.

Michelle Taylor:

Thank you, Chris. It really is an exciting time to be in the electricity industry. There are new products everywhere, and new ways of doing things are constantly emerging. And connectivity is King. Donna was just referring to the mobile phone she'd rather throw out, but sometimes that is controlling lots of stuff in our houses now, which never happened before. Today is about providing you, also, with some assistance in how to keep on top of all of this, ensuring safe outcomes for you and for the technology and your customers.

Michelle Taylor:

So there are many, many new electricity technologies available. From electric vehicles to smart home devices controlled by your mobile phone, there are roles for electrically trained personnel everywhere. And what we are doing is making a difference to the lives of current and future generations. Today installing a photovoltaic solar system is commonplace, but 20 years ago there were only a handful of these types of systems connected to our networks. Now battery energy storage systems are starting be installed. Home energy management systems, smart hot water systems with variable elements, vehicle to grid electric vehicle connections, smart lighting and security systems all make up part of the modern home. Our industry is making a difference, and we have to make sure that this is positive, including our consideration of safety for new and emerging technologies.

Michelle Taylor:

Technology changes from the electricity supply industry all the way down to the consumer have the potential to make a big difference in what you do and what you encounter in your work. There may be new technologies out there that you had no training in, but that will impact on your work even if it's not what you're directly dealing with.

Michelle Taylor:

So safety for new and emerging technologies is a challenging area. Things are changing very quickly. The marketplace for products is now global, and we're needing to enhance the skills to offer end to end solutions. I work in the new and emerging technology areas at Energy Queensland, and I am continually challenged to ensure that I and my team understand these new technologies, how they work, what difference they make and how to use them safely. So how do I find out about the safety standards to which a product should be built or certified?

Michelle Taylor:

How do I ensure that I'm installing the product safely? What are the trusted sources of information and what's missing from them information I already have? And how do I know this? How do I keep my knowledge up-to-date? Not all of us have the time or the ability to do the detailed due diligence and market surveys around new technologies, their safety standards and their capabilities. And sadly, not all products out there come with a high quality level of documentation, manuals, references to thorough safety standards and the like. But due to the change of pace, it is impossible also for the standards to keep up with the rate of change and the rate of innovation. From my own experience, when I started in energy storage systems, as an example, many of the early batteries, energy storage systems I trialled, had no, or very inadequate manuals. There were limited Australian or international standards related to these products.

Michelle Taylor:

And in some cases they were applied, some cases, not. We even found many errors in the product that were basically back to the fundamentals of our AS 3000 rules. And perhaps you felt that some products have been rushed to market rather than properly fully tested. Yet these products were available readily on the Australian market. Now, I only happened to be involved in the Australian standards development at that stage, so I had the opportunity to accelerate the development of Australian standards for energy storage, as an example. But the experience clarified that there are so many challenges in getting these new products to have appropriate safety standards, and that we have to accept that there's going to be a bit of a challenge in having the safety standards at the same time as having the new products hit the market. So there are other things that you'd consider doing.

Michelle Taylor:

There are lots of great ideas turning into great products every day. Customers expecting greater levels of control, interconnectivity and visibility of their investments, and rules and regulations are regularly being updated. How do you keep on top of all this and ensure that you're competent in the work that you do? A smart salesman may provide what seems to be a comprehensive insight into a particular product. References to international or Australian standards, compliance on a specification sheet may provide you with increased confidence as to its quality. Images of installations and customer references provided may suggest widespread approval and confidence of a product, but we still must do our own independent homework when it comes to some of these new products. The internet makes that easy, but sadly, some importers and product developers lack integrity and do make untrue claims, and our research whilst it can be an onerous task, should be carried out a number of ways to make sure it's comprehensive enough and we're not at least try and reach out to others.

Michelle Taylor:

In new technologies, easy to focus on the new and not apply existing knowledge. Using your existing training should provide you with a great starting place. It's not just about the electrical risks however. There are other elements to consider. Manual handling, chemical risk longevity, how a product interacts with other devices, how would it be disposed of an end of life, product and service maintenance requirements, many questions to ask a supplier itself. Also, it's important to ask the supplier for the manuals, not just, and related safety certifications. Not just the specification, but actual certification, so you actually get what and understand what the specifications have. If you talk to others in industry, through web forums, social media pages, these are all great places to start and access larger groups of people who often have the same challenges and have different experiences. Asking questions of these groups, general questions, as well as pointed questions can give you an overall feel.

Michelle Taylor:

If you seek out other similar products, you can also compare and determine whether the specifications look right and smell right sort of, their references to ensure that there are applicable standards and if there are not, what are the types of things that they are considering? Look at the applicable standards. There's generally not a widget standard for everything that's freshly comes out, but there are some basic electrical standards which are applicable. Find out whether they're an active industry groups. They may provide direction people to contact, or may already have some references, rules or code of conduct that you may be able to utilize. Sometimes you may also come across some levels of conflicting information, always ensure you to seek clarification where there is conflicting or insufficient information. There are many bodies out there who have also provided some form of guiding principle, codes of conduct, or information bulletins whilst newly published standards may not be yet available. And information is often just a mouse click away.

Michelle Taylor:

So it's often really hard to just go, "Well, where do I start?" Who's who in the industry? There are so many players. But it also means that there's a lot of potential sources of information. A variety of industry boards exist across Australia that can provide good guidance and potentially contacts in the industry. I always use as a handy tool for myself, if there's a similar product that is new in the marketplace, but it's similar to something else, I'll often look at the front pages of the Australian standard, where it lists all the industry associations that are involved in making those products or in making those standards for the products. They become a really good source of the types of industry associations that I want to talk to about new products. On the screen, you can see of a whole variety of different areas from the standard side of things, electrical equipment and regulatory authorities, the industry associations, even our network businesses also have a stance, particularly on items that are connected to the grid. And there are a vast array of not only formal industry associations, such as this, but also things like Facebook pictures.

Michelle Taylor:

Finally, there are opportunities where we want to get some decent knowledge, and this is great for continued professional development for everybody. It takes many forms and as we've known over COVID in particular, there's so many ways that we can access things that we didn't have the opportunity before. As a person in Cairns, I can't always get to those wonderful conferences down in Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane, but I know now that there's so much more that it's available through webinars, not just in Australia, but webinars internationally. It's amazing how much is happening overseas. There's a lot of knowledge sharing happening, and there's a lot of research happening at university levels that's now becoming much more readily available through the internet. Industry newsletters are a great place to start and give you examples of particularly where new technologies are coming up and how they are impacting different parts of the world.

Michelle Taylor:

There are podcasts recordings, there's training for public and private enterprises and even the media can provide some useful inputs. This is all continuing professional development, and it's all about staying safe and ensuring your competency was delving into the new and emerging technologies that are out there on offer.

Chris Bombolas:

Thank you Michelle. And look, I must say some wonderful tips on new and emerging technology. But one traditional one that can still be frustrating is when paper goes across the top of your microphone, when you're doing a presentation, just thought, I'd bring that one up. You It's a problem that happens quite often. So, thank you Michelle, for joining us from Cairns. If you have a question for Michelle, Dave, Christine or any of our panel members, our presenters from earlier, don't forget, you can submit your questions. All you have to do is type your name and question via the chat box to the right of the screen and we'll get to those very, very shortly. Let's go to the fourth of our presenters. And I'd like to introduce Leo Ward from Power and Data Support Services. Leo has been a member of Master Electricians for more than 15 years and has more than 45 years experience in the electrical industry. He is the managing director of Power and Data Support Services. And on top of that, also operates a cattle breeding property.

Chris Bombolas:

He's a busy man, got lots of things to do. And technology has been his friend. So to give us an update on another aspect of safety in electricity, please welcome another speaker from Cairns, Leo Ward.

Leo:

Thank you Chris and to all the listeners out there, we do really appreciate your attendance. Education, electrical awareness, regional and rural safety. One of the things that really made me aware, is what do the words electrical safety or electrically safe really mean? And how do we portray these processes and how we do things? And the messages we need to get across to get out here our people who use power every day. So my main focus is on how can we educate and deliver the message of safety working and living with electricity? As I started down in Australia thinking how to explore and develop our role in the education of electricity, the vastness of users of electricity in everyone's everyday life, the enormity of this journey became daunting. The consideration of the impact on people's lives and livelihoods and where the electricity has transported us in today's lives and how we use it and how it's that thing that is just there? And how does it affect us in the rural landscape?

Leo:

When we grew up on the farm as kids, we learned to fix everything else ourselves. In those days and ages, we had three lights and two power points in a house, and that was it. The concept of safety was staying out of the way of the old cranky dairy cow and not getting tangled up in the old electric fence. But as our dependency on electricity grew, how do we create that message of the dangers and the effects of electrical industry and the electrical equipment we use? And my dad used to spiel at me that electricity was a wonderful servant, but a terrible master and no truer words are spoken. And young students of today, schools and our apprentices, they're going, and as we mentioned earlier, they will be our teachers of tomorrow. And the messages we develop for them and how will they get their messages across to us in the older generation of how to do things, but also that the generations that they're bringing through underneath them, how will that message get across? The best way to learn is to teach.

Leo:

And we must ensure that our coaching methods and the way we provide those messages really sinks in and we need the ability to offer support. And we must never be daunted in there in that process to be able to give that support. I've spoken to a lot of people in the industry since I was invited to do this tour and that included the local inspectors and some of ESO officers I deal with in the rural sector. And one of the things that it came up at a meeting we had early this year in Atherton, in relation to rural instance in industries and locations, and the highlighted point that really struck me was this things called dead zones. And I was astounded, and reflecting on my own locations and what we do on our own properties. It's something we've never dealt with before. So, things like workshops and sheds on rural properties that have been built under aerial power lines. These things don't need council approval to be built, they're just built there.

Leo:

Farming machinery under the aerial lines, and even hay bail stacks built under aerial power lines. Large traveling irrigators, those processes. Now these aerial lines can be from private lines to high energy lines. And even 20 kilometres away from where we are in Cairns, we have SWER lines, which is single wire earth return electrical reticulation. And the problem with those, is that they're just one wire running across a paddock, a long span. So we need the awareness of all these, everybody living in these areas, what the risk is, and the days of potential risk in that shop. So we're talking about the hazards associated in our rural sectors, such as we've talked about the irrigation systems, including bore pumps. And again, all this machinery needs maintenance sense, constant awareness, just even turning them on, have you got to gumboots on? Are you wearing gloves? Things like that.

Leo:

Traveling irrigation systems, especially around high voltage lines. Harvest new equipment, especially in their cane cutting areas. Refrigeration systems for dairies. Cooking and roasting machinery for locations as far as a mango-packing plants at coffee industries. Welding equipment and portable electric equipment. So, we have all these different equipment and power supply systems out there. One of the ones that had been noticed more lately is a prime or standby generators, tractor PTO generators. It's more proliferation of solar systems, because we're finding it's cheaper to put a solar system with battery support than it is to run mains power supplies from a supply authority companies to these installations. So we're seeing more of a proliferation of those on the industries and in the rural industry.

Leo:

As you can see in the photo, there's a fairly large crack in the ground. Again, part of it, it was drought, a drought area. There's other, also another situation that occurred there. And I said to the operator there, I said, "Is there any mains cables running through underneath there?" And they go, "Oh yes." And I'm going, "Seriously, observation awareness. Are we tracking on top of this?" And again, it was a situation that could have occurred. Fortunately, it didn't. One of the things I tried to find is more, as even Dave mentioned before, statistics and information about Australia and a snapshot in the Australian agriculture and industry. And one of the interesting things was that self-employed workers is 46 per cent in the industry. Employees are higher proportion of older workers than any other industry. 16 per cent aged 65 and over.

Leo:

We're talking about the different hazards and chemicals and just livestock, machinery, weather conditions. You talked about lightning storms and things like that. The farmers, they work often alone and the risk to them is even higher. So, again, we tried to create that awareness of, ask for assistance, ask help, those sorts of things we need to encourage and help to find. And when we consider these details above, the injuries from electrical industries may not seem to be as relevant, but we know the devastation on any industry, or the near misses, one too many. And the cost which Christine pointed out, the cost of electrical installation repairs connected with the tyranny of distance. Are they to be addressed in unimproved or unapproved electrical works and lack of maintenance? It is a big call. And as I said earlier, we learned to do everything as kids, and we need to be aware of those practices and how to encourage a thought bubble with Christine QCWA, how it can actually bring that more to fruition of approvals and understanding the best practices.

Leo:

This slide here was, I've taken a bit of a detail from the NPPD, which is an American-based organization. And they talk about how they plan or process, they ask their rural organizations, farming to actually consider all these things as in toolbox talks, the end of the day before, what are we going to do tomorrow? How are we going to do it? What are we going to replace? But then the next morning, you're going to be working on this power line, you're going to be doing this. You're running your header machine through here, you have grain trucks, you've got portable elevators. What are the things we need to be aware of? Have you a spotter? Are you aware? All right? So, they're the things we just want to keep highlighting. So the education in the electrical industry and awareness.

Leo:

I suppose, we grew up, I sort of grew up in a farming region. And the thing was, you grew up knowing that if you stood all day, the is going to kick you or run over you. So you grew up with that DNA built into you. But what we're trying to do now is create more of an awareness of the electrical risks and electrical situations that are every day and how do actually not get involved with it. So we talked about electrical injuries have devastating and sometimes deadly effects. Work as an occupation is regularly exposed to electrical equipment are particularly at risk of serious injury. However, these injuries are often preventable with proper safety strategies and precautions in place. This is, we talk about our toolbox talks and planning and understanding who's going to be supporting who. And we should all consider and raise the standard for safety or safety for ourselves, our family, friends, employees, we take measures to protect them from electrical exposure.

Leo:

For those who've been in the industry for quite some time and as again mentioned earlier, we finally have in the Australian standards, the installation of safety switches and Aleutian circuits in domestic and commercial world. Is up to each of us to keep pushing for this to be implemented and tested regularly as a minimum standard in our industry and applications. And this is for older places. The new places are getting this as part of the requirements of the Australian standards. We need to make sure that that message is getting down the track for older installations to be upgraded and made safe. And the standards, The following standards must be the core. Turn the power off, do not work live and use qualified personnel. These are basic everyday messages and as stated earlier, when we educate our young people to the dangers of working near or around electrical systems, this becomes the standards that are only acceptable in the future. To round off, finally, I'd like to thank my family for their support during my past 45 years, and for my formative years of farm life. It's been a big circle.

Leo:

However, country and farming life never leaves your blood. And I believe it has made me more driven to be and do better, to both of my team use electrical in farming who keep me focused. We talk about ongoing training and development, COVID's paid a little bit of issue with that at the moment, but we still need to be talking about doing webinars. And I thank you for the work you produce. And also I like to thank my MEA counsellors and MEA members in the electrical industry in my farming community, what they do for me, and Greg and Michael Hyman, they've been very good supporters for the year, so to help us stay focused. So on closing, electrically wise and safe. Thank you. Thanks Chris.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks Very much Leo. Fantastic words of wisdom and some key take home advice. And if you have a question for Leo or any of the other previous three presenters, Dave, Christine, and Michelle, don't forget to type your name and question via the chat box to the right of your screen. Well, we are here to talk about electrical safety regional and rural Queensland. And one of the major sectors in those areas is agriculture. And to talk about electrical safety initiatives done by the ESO, I'd like to welcome Malcolm Chessells from the Electrical Safety Office to talk about electrical safety initiatives in the agricultural sector in Queensland. Mal.

Malcolm Chessells:

Thanks Chris. And hello to everyone out there. Yeah. The Electrical Safety Summit today, it presents a great opportunity for us to talk about some of the initiatives that are taking place in the agricultural sector to improve safety and education and awareness right across the electrical spectrum. So to do that, I'd like to start with just this simple slide that talks about the priority risks from the Electrical Safety Office perspective. And it's quite obvious. One of the top one there is overhead contact. So working in the agricultural sector is it's considered a high risk with heavy machinery and everything else that's happening to produce the goods that come from there. But you involve that with the heights of machinery and overhead power lines, and the risk of coming into contact is that hazard is just increased.

Malcolm Chessells:

So in terms of the danger of working around electricity, unfortunately with the last 12 fatalities that have taken place in the agricultural sector, six of those, sorry, I'll start that again. Unfortunately, with the last 12 electricity fatalities in Queensland, six of those have been in the agricultural sector. So the Electrical Safety Office has joined with some key players in the agricultural sector and the industry and other community groups, such as Queensland CWA, Ergon Energy, Energex Energy, to improve electrical safety, education, and awareness. The priority risks we're looking at as part of this forum is contact with overhead power lines, unsafe electrical equipment, and lack of safety switches.

Malcolm Chessells:

This slide here, some of you may or may not be familiar with the hierarchy of risk control. So, the diagram that we're presenting there is trying to get people to understand that the best form of safety is elimination of risk. And that's that top category write across the top there, and the least level of protection that you can get is personal protective equipment. So what were the attempted to do here and down the right-hand side, and it's probably very difficult to read from the screen there, there are a number of initiatives that are currently underway and taking place, and we've replicated those as the little blue bubbles in the diagram itself. And the first thing that becomes obvious is that there's only one in the elimination of risks. And on future slides I'll go through after this, we'll talk a bit more about each of these bubbles. But one thing that is very obvious is the massive bubbles down the bottom is all about awareness. We have some more in training and some tools to assist people there, but the majority of work is taking place in awareness.

Malcolm Chessells:

We'd like to encourage people to actually shift some of that awareness into action. Start looking at more ways to eliminate risks, substitute risk, and isolate risk, not just about presenting awareness. So if we talk about elimination, the Electrical Equipment Safety Scheme, and it's a scheme that is going to get some more airplay in the future. It's been in place since 2013. It's about looking for the regulatory compliance mark on products that you purchase. The regulatory compliance mark is an indication that the piece of electrical equipment you are purchasing, a toaster, an iron, a TV, complies with current Australian safety standards. It's a very important thing to look for.

Malcolm Chessells:

Another form of elimination is looking at relocating overhead power lines. And from the picture that you can see on the screen there, it's an aerial picture of a piece of farmland. The blue lines that you can see on the screen there that may or may not be very evident, indicate where the overhead power lines are. And you'll see there in the centre of the screen, a hashed-out red area. The overhead power line used to go straight across the top of Macadamia farm in that area there. And the farmer had frequent contact with overhead power line, putting himself and others at risk. So through discussions with Ergon Energy in that area, they organized to relocate the power line and remove the risk altogether. So the power line is now fed from a different area. So another thing, and Leo mentioned it as well, not storing irrigation pipes or machinery underneath the power lines. It's an important thing about the housekeeping.

Malcolm Chessells:

Other actions. If we look at isolation. Energy Queensland are looking at a revised policy in terms of pole replacement. So if a pole is actually due for replacement due to degradation, or the likes, Energy Queensland have put in place a policy where they'll actually increase the height of those poles to improve the ground-to-line clearance, making it safer, but still not eliminating the risk. So it's something that is in place at this point in time. And I recommend you to talk to your local distributor there in regards to that option. Another thing that definitely we're trying to encourage people, is to look at the actual type of farming activities that are being taken in the vicinity overhead power lines, and look at opportunities to actually change that farming activity that may mean you don't need to come in the close vicinity of overhead power lines or not use the type of machinery you currently use to put you at a higher risk.

Malcolm Chessells:

Engineering controls. And you've heard this mentioned by a few other speakers already. Safety switches are now required on all final sub-circuits of a new electrical installation, but that's not the case for an existing electrical installation. And so we're encouraging and doing a lot of work in the area of education and awareness about the importance of having safety switches installed.

Malcolm Chessells:

General awareness about the importance of having safety switches installed, not just on your power circuits, but on your light circuits, your hot water system circuit, your air conditioning circuit. The safety switch is there for your protection. It may not save you from receiving electrical shock, but it has the high potential of saving you from a fatal electrical injury.

Malcolm Chessells:

For further information, you can con go to our website there. And if you're talking to your electrician, make sure you ask him about installing the correct type of safety switch for the installation that you have and the type of equipment that you have installed. And we do have what we call an e-SAFE on our website that actually provides further information in regards to that.

Malcolm Chessells:

Other engineering controls that can be put in place, and we're conducting some conversations with different service providers at this point in time, is in the era of geofencing. And geofencing, if you're not familiar with it, it's looking at how the engineering control of recognizing the location of power lines through a mapping system can be incorporated with the technology of the farm machinery you're using, and actually start with audible alarms and warning systems and flashing lights to heighten that awareness that you are moving into an area of risk.

Malcolm Chessells:

As I mentioned in the earlier slide about the hierarchy of risk controls, a lot of work is taking place in the administrative control area. One of the key ones that is out there and has been for some time, is Energy Queensland's Look up and Live campaign. That campaign has now progressed to the state that it's available on your handheld device, on your phone. So I encourage you all to go to your app store and download the Look up and Live app.

Malcolm Chessells:

Another area that that can assist if the lines cannot be re relocated, whether it be for financial purposes or other reasons, is to look at any visible warning signs that you can actually place on the overhead power lines. Some of those come in the form of the picture that you see before you now is called a Rohde marker. It attaches to the overhead power line and it actually spins and reflects. So it makes you more aware that you're in an area. There are other things that can be done as well, such as painting around the bottom of power lines. Just as a reminder, that you're driving past them each day, that there are the high risk of overhead power lines above you.

Malcolm Chessells:

Christine has already spoken to, at length actually, in regards to the work that we have done with the Queensland CWA. So it was quite simple, as part of the forum the Agricultural Electrical Safety Forum, Christine presented to us to say, how do we get the simple message out there? Nothing that's too in-depth, nothing that's all that government speak that some people don't like to listen to. So this is where the electrical safety checklist came in. And it does speak very heavily about the simple things to do, to look out for your electrical equipment, the overhead power lines, shocks and tingles and safety switches once again. So shops and tingles there, there's a couple of very important phone numbers that you can call on this checklist there. It's, I think, if you go to our website, you'll be able to see links to the different Facebook and other social media areas where you can get a copy of that list.

Malcolm Chessells:

Another initiative that was undertaken within the electrical safety office was, how do we go into the community and share with them the safety message and demonstrate exactly what it's about rather than just talking about it? So within the team we've built portable safety switchboards. These switchboards, whilst they're made with new technology, replicate the switchboard that's actually your installation on your house or in your shed. And you can see across the bottom there, there's a range of LED lights. So by turning different circuit breakers, main switches and safety switches on and off, actually it's a display showing where the power is turned on and off at any point in time.

Malcolm Chessells:

The other thing that we do with these switchboards is that it's always difficult to explain to someone the difference between a circuit breaker and a safety switch. Now, a safety switch has a test button on it. A T, it has a little T or test button on it. And from this switchboard, we can demonstrate to people how difficult it is sometimes to actually identify which is a circuit breaker, and which is a safety switch. And they perform typically the same function. The circuit breaker is there to protect the wiring and the installation, but the safety switch is there to switch off in an instant to protect you, your life and your families.

Malcolm Chessells:

Some other work that's been taken underway as part of the group. The work that was undertaken with Queensland TAFE, and that came about through Mackay canegrowers Queensland in regards to a lot of their itinerant workers coming through. And how do they keep them fully aware of the induction procedures and the requirements to actually work in close proximity to power lines. So that's now available online. If you go to Queensland TAFE website, you'll be able to see that course is there. Electrical safety, periodicals, e-SAFE newsletters. With Energy Queensland, the Electrical Safety Office and other agricultural industry groups in their own periodicals, there are numerous messages being put out there on a weekly and monthly basis to keep everyone advised and informed of electrical hazards and working in the vicinity.

Malcolm Chessells:

Another piece of work that's been undertaken at this point in time is to engage with different parts of the agricultural industry that I have not necessarily been part of the forum that we're working with at this point in time. To encourage them to improve electrical safety and awareness within their own sector of the agricultural industry. And some of those include the Avocados Australia, Australian Banana Growers, Bamboo Society of Australia, Biosecurity Australia, which we've had some good discussions with them in regards, particularly with bamboo as well to put some more literature out there about the risk of planting underneath power lines. And also with the local government association of Queensland.

Malcolm Chessells:

Another program that we're working on, and there has been some mention of the area already Atherton's Tableland Region. Unfortunately, this region, it's been overrepresented with the number of electrical fatalities in their area. So we're looking to put a dedicated program in place and that will potentially commence next year. Now the program is all about getting local leaders and influencers and family members within the community to take on board that safety message and deliver it within the community and get that community to actually improve their education and awareness in that area. As I mentioned, unfortunately, there have been four fatalities in that area and they all occurred on farms. Two involved contact with overhead power lines and another was an unfortunate double fatality that involved a faulty electrical cord, but no safety switches were installed on that installation.

Malcolm Chessells:

The program itself, it's all about the key messages that we are trying to share with everyone. Is the risk of electrical safety equipment and making sure that you have the regulatory compliance mark on that piece of equipment when you purchase it. Switchboard safety and wiring with electrical safety switches, and working in the vicinity of overhead power lines.

Malcolm Chessells:

And one other piece of work that is just about to take off is... Donna mentioned it earlier, is working with children. Through the Tablelands regional safety project that we're looking to commence there and discussions with the local council and the development of our portable switchboard, we've been contacted by the Tablelands Regional Council in regards to a safety squad program, which is looking at educating children nine to 11 years of age about safety hazards. And the feedback from the schools is that electrical safety is one of the key things they would like to educate their children about. So we've been invited to participate in this program that's being run by the Tablelands Regional Council. And I believe there will be an initial trial program for that at Atherton Sir Joseph School, coming up in October. Those dates are yet to be confirmed. It's only early days, but it's a great initiative by the Tablelands Regional Council to get that safety message through to the younger generations coming through.

Malcolm Chessells:

That's it for me in regards to that presentation and the work that's being undertaken by some key people in the agricultural area. And thank you very much for the opportunity.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks, Mal. Some great work being done by the ESO, particularly in the regional and rural areas throughout Queensland. Well, it's time for your session now. And we'll open up the panel. Thank you for all your questions. Of course, if you want to try and rush in a last minute question, if it's an absolute ripper, we'll put it up. We'll try to get to as many as we can. You can type in your name and question via the chat box to the right of your screen. Dave, Christine, Michelle, and Leo. Let's see if they're back online. Can you give me a wave? Are you all back on deck? Yes. We've got them. We've got their attention. Let's go to the questions.

Chris Bombolas:

The first one is for you, Dave. It's from Tina. What are the simple steps...? And we've got to keep these answers nice and short so we can get through as many as we can. What are the simple steps someone can take to improve their mental health? Nice and quick in a little capsule for us, Dave.

Dave Burt:

I think there's a few things to concentrate on is things that you're satisfied with, things that make you happy. It's always easy to concentrate on the bad things, but that's an important one. And I think taking time out for yourself and maybe sharing when your mental health is suffering a little bit. I think that sometimes you can't always do everything on your own, we need other people to help us.

Chris Bombolas:

Great advice. Another one for you, Dave. This one comes from Nick. As a business owner, what would you suggest implementing in your workplace to support mental health? Let's get the steps. The first steps that we need to do.

Dave Burt:

Talk about it. Talk about it, make it a subject that's easy to talk. And I can tell you that I've been in business for 20 plus years. And in the two years, since I put a book out there, which our staff know about it. The previous 20 years, I would have had maybe one conversation around mental health and wellbeing with employees. I couldn't tell you how many I've had in the last two years, more than 20. And I think creating an environment where people feel able to talk. It's probably one of the most important things we can do as business owners.

Chris Bombolas:

I'm taking from your earlier presentation, the five words, what's happening in your world? That's as simple as that, that will start that conversation.

Dave Burt:

Chris, most of the time we can see when something's not quite right with someone and nine times out of 10 if you go and ask the question, probe a little bit, you'll probably find that there's something there behind it.

Chris Bombolas:

All right. This one's to Christine. It comes from Joe. Thank you, Joe. How do you encourage women, Christine, to start the conversation about electrical safety in their workplaces?

Christine King:

Well, I think that women are very good at talking and communicating. We don't have a problem with that. And I think that what we've done through the CWA with having these discussions at our halls and that we really do empower women to go home and be brave. And they can find that subtle moment to say, "Well, have you checked something?" Or, "I'll come down with you and have a look at this. And can I put this checklist up in the shed so that you can read it?" I think women are very creative in starting a conversation and it's about life, so we're going to be brave. And it's very important that people don't take offense. It's there for the best interests. And I recommend that they go for it because the outcome is fantastic and it does start a dialogue.

Chris Bombolas:

Great advice. Let's move on to our next question. It comes from Jane and it's aimed at Michelle. Now, Michelle, what would be your advice to other women looking to work in your industry?

Michelle Taylor:

Oh wow. Look, there's nothing stopping you. If you're interested there's opportunities for everybody. And whilst it's quite well known that the electrical industry is a male dominated field, I think that there are so many opportunities and there's so many right places for women to be. In the same way that Christine is talking about influencing women around the farms, there's a lot of things that as women in the electrical industry that we have the opportunity to do that probably didn't happen so much with men. And Dave's example of showing that the conversations around how you going are really important. And we tend to do that a lot more than the guys, perhaps.

Chris Bombolas:

Excellent. Excellent. Now, Leo, you haven't escaped unscathed either. There's a question for you. It comes from Allen and Allen would like to know, what's one piece of advice you have for farmers working alone? And that's a situation that is often the case where they have long days, hard yakka and they're on their own.

Leo:

Yeah. We had that process early in our piece where I had my farm manager and he was basically working on his own. And what we did was we started the dialogue with the next door neighbour. And even today, my farm manager is helping to lay a concrete slab. So we work together, we balance off each other. We try to be supportive, community-wise, so much so that hopefully more post-COVID, but we're trying to actually create more of a community base around ourselves so we can actually support each other in all our outcomes, mental health and all that sort of stuff as well.

Chris Bombolas:

For that question, if you are performing work on your own and it's remote and it's on a far end of the property, how can you keep in contact or what would you do in advance? Would you say to family members or to your foreman or whoever it might be that, "I'll be back at five o'clock, I'll be back at 7:00 p.m." Give them some parameters so that it would raise an alarm if you weren't back in time.

Leo:

Yeah, yeah. Again, we actually all people who work on our property, we actually have all hands-free two-way radio systems so that if there are any issues, it's a quick two-way radio. I think it covers the boundaries of our property. Mobile phones are good, but we just kept having issues with, what you call the VOR, the ability to just talk and you get a response. We then do also have planning in place where we say, "Okay, this is the roles we're going to be doing today. This is our anticipated times. This is what we're using." And again, any of the risk stuff, we try and work in pairs. But as I said, if you're out on your own, communicate, advise, whiteboards, anything. Even if you're on your own and your family is away, just let your neighbour know. Just somebody to actually say, "Hey, if the lights aren't on at night, somebody is missing. So who's there, who's there to help?"

Chris Bombolas:

There's another one for you, Leo. This comes from Kirk. And I know you've had 45 years experience in the electrical industry, but what's the biggest challenge you've faced during that time?

Leo:

Keeping up with the changes in technology, would be one side of it. The other side of it is making sure that the people who work for me are provided constant training because our industry changes so quickly. How do we keep up with that technology? How do we keep them on track? And that to me is always a challenge. It's keeping them safe, but keeping them aware of what the industry is doing and how we keep level of it. And that's all the industries on both sides, farming or the electrical. It's really tough.

Chris Bombolas:

Just aim that question across the Tasman to Auckland, to Dave too. You've had a wealth of experience in your trade. What's the biggest challenge you've faced?

Dave Burt:

I think new legislation that comes in, whether it be technical or health and safety, just constantly being in touch and having systems in place that are fit for purpose so your employees can all go home safely each day. That never stops. My wife runs a health and safety program for our 120 employees. So we're often talking about it at night, which is really, really romantic. But it's really important to us. And I think keeping in touch with all that stuff is challenging.

Chris Bombolas:

And just to wind up and thanks everybody for your questions. A million questions came through, but we've had to keep it to a half dozen or six or seven. This one's for you, Dave. It comes from the ESO. I think it might've come from Donna actually, but I don't want to give her up. There've been many comments and requests for your book in the webinar chat forum. Can you tell us how to get a copy, and could you sign one for Donna?

Dave Burt:

I certainly can. On the website, lengtheningtheshadow.co.nz or .com, either will get you there. There's a process there that you can buy a book if you wish to and it just gets couriered to you. I don't believe it's in the shops in Australia.

Chris Bombolas:

Thank you very much to all our panel members for joining us. We have to wrap up the panel session there as we get towards the end of our summit for 2020. Of course the summit is put on by the Electrical Safety Office and it's the brain child and the baby of the Commissioner. And I'd like to welcome the Commissioner to say a few words and a wind down now summit for 2020. Please welcome Greg Skyring.

Greg Skyring:

Thank you Chris. Good morning everyone. And thank you all for registering. We've got a great line-up and we've got registrations from Weipa in the north, right through to Victoria in the South, across to New Zealand and I believe we've also got guests from Switzerland. Fantastic line-up. So I trust from this extraordinary line-up of speakers, you will all have a takeaway that will inspire you in your business. Can I also ask you to become involved in electrical safety week this week. Hold your own event, connect with the many programs available, share a safety moment, maybe online. As Chris said earlier, this event's been going for four years now. And back in 2017, leaders of industry, we had 40 leaders of industry that were invited to a Safety Summit breakfast, a little bit different to this at the Victoria Park Golf Club.

Greg Skyring:

Those leaders committed to inspire others to take action and to drive safety leadership at work through visible, impactful leadership. And in 2018 members subscribed to the safety leadership at work lead program. And we committed to develop, pilot and evaluate a safety culture toolkit for the electrical services industry. And in 2019, we delivered on the safety leadership pilot program. A program that was designed to measure and embed a safety culture in your business and across the electrical services industry. In that pilot program, we heard from participants about the benefits in motivating their workforce to behave in a way that prioritizes health and safety and that of their teams and mates through good leadership.

Greg Skyring:

That brings us to 2020, a year of many disruptions and impact on our wellbeing. It's where leadership, health and safety has taken on an even greater and present meaning. So through this webinar, our guest speakers have connected with and inspired us in their own way. So, Dave, thank you for coming. Dave's story has never been more relevant. Droughts, fires, a pandemic, and now a recession. And so how are you dealing with your world? Are you brave enough to ask the question of your mates? So thank you, Dave. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. And I think a lot of your story will resonate with a lot of people in the industry.

Greg Skyring:

Donna, getting the balance between enforcement of legislation and education and engagement, it's not easy. The focus on rural and regional Queensland by bringing together community, industry and government organizations to improve electrical safety is commendable. It's a simple things like the safety switch education and the switch off before entering ceiling spaces. They're the things that will save lives. So thank you for today.

Greg Skyring:

Christine, you're a community voice to be listened to you. You turn words into actions. You did not hesitate when made aware that the safety switches on all circuits for the CWAs many aging properties would make rural and regional communities safe under your watch. Lots of great messages today. Back to basics, that's what we want to hear. Thank you, Christine.

Greg Skyring:

Michelle. Michelle has a real passion for electrical safety and a great advocate for regional Queensland. Michelle, as Chris said earlier, is on our electrical equipment committee. She keeps us informed on the benefits and the risks of emerging technology and the importance of staying current and in particular competent. Thank you, Michelle.

Greg Skyring:

And Leo, our contractor from Cairns and farmer. The message is clear. The many hazards working on rural properties, working remote and working alone. The elevated risk of working near overhead power lines. I particularly liked your description of the dead zones. Additional risks created where operations seldom occur, but can be mitigated by education, awareness. You might not have mentioned it, but certainly the Look up and Live app that is now out there, a great tool.

Greg Skyring:

Safety switches on all circuits, test regularly, turn the power off, do not work live, use qualified personnel. Simple clear messages. Thank you Leo.

Greg Skyring:

And Mel from the ESO. Reinforcing those priority risks in the rural sector. Contact with overhead lines, lack of safety switches, unsafe electrical equipment. Key messages, and clearly articulating the actions to manage those risks. Simple elimination, isolation, engineering and administration controls.

Greg Skyring:

Can I just thank the AU team, in particular, Elsje, Ella, Connie and Zoe, and particularly our MC Chris here as well and all the webinar participants for being here today. And in closing, I'd just like to leave you with this message. By attending this Safety Summit, you make a commitment. If each of you take one action for the health, safety, and wellbeing of your team, your workplace, and inevitably your family, then investment in your time here today will have been worthwhile. Thank you. Be safe. And I look forward to engaging again in 2021. Thank you.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks Greg. You can see our Facebook details there. If you'd like to join us and follow us. Thanks to the Commissioner for making today possible. Thank you to our speakers, Craig, Dave, Donna, Christine, Michelle, Leo, and Mal. There are a number of ways you can get involved in electricity safety week, which is running through until the 11th. We're running a Facebook competition on our electrical safety office page every day this week. Send through the correct answer to the question and you could win one of five, $100 Trade Equipment gift vouchers.

Chris Bombolas:

Please join football legend, Mat Rogers at tomorrow's electrical contractors webinar. If you're an electrical apprentice or supervisor, you can click on to the apprentice and supervisor webinar. That's happening on Thursday morning, bright and early. You can visit electricalsafety.qld.gov.au to register for a webinar or to check out some of our really invaluable resources.

Chris Bombolas:

Today's webinar was recorded so you can watch it again and share it with your friends and colleagues. It will be available at electricalsafety.qld.gov.au, along with a range of other electrical safety information and resources.

Chris Bombolas:

Shortly, we'll email you a feedback survey. We really value your feedback. It helps us shape events like these in the future. Tell us what you like. Tell us what you didn't like. Tell us what you want more of. We'll take that all into consideration.

Chris Bombolas:

Finally, on behalf of the Office of Industrial Relations and the Electrical Safety Office, thank you for joining us for Electricity Safety Summit 2020. In the words of Dave Burt, our friend from across the ditch, "It's about mates helping mates. It's about being brave enough to ask the question, what's happening in your world?" I hope it's safe and I hope it leads us back to the Summit in 2021. Thanks for joining us. Be safe.

[End of Transcript]

Chris Bombolas:

Good morning and welcome to our electrical contractors webinar. I'm Chris Bombolas from the Office of Industrial Relations and on behalf of OIR and the Electrical Safety Office, thanks for joining us this morning. This morning we'll be looking at electrical safety and in particular reporting unlicensed work and safety incidents. We'll also be looking at solar PV systems and safety around those. We have a special guest joining us here to talk about adversity, and that is Mat Rogers. We'll get to those guests and to those segments very, very shortly.

Chris Bombolas:

But firstly, I would like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we meet and elders past, present, and emerging. Thanks for joining us this morning. As you're all aware, it is Electricity Safety Week and that goes from the seventh to the 11th of September and it reminds us that while electricity helps power up our everyday lives, it can be dangerous. The ESO is hosting three events, digital this year, because of the times that we're in, focusing on health and safety in the industry, particularly mental health.

Chris Bombolas:

These events are tailored for industry leaders, electrical workers, contractors, and apprentices. Yesterday we had the Electricity Safety Summit, today of course we're catering for electrical contractors and electricians, and tomorrow we are catering for apprentices and supervisors involved in the electricity industry. As I said, it is Electricity Safety Week where we are putting the focus firmly back on safety.

Chris Bombolas:

I'd like to acknowledge our football legend and special guest who'll be joining us very shortly, Mat Rogers, and also Donna Heelan, Michael Gibson, and Michael Heinemann from the Electrical Safety Office. Thank you for joining us and if you'd like to be even more apart of this digital event, you have any questions, we will have a panel discussion later on. You can type your name and questions via the chat box to the right of the livestream. To change the size of your screen, select the four small arrows next to the volume bar at the bottom of the screen.

Chris Bombolas:

Time to move to a different track to find out what's happening in the industry, some trends, some issues, and what the ESO is doing to help us. It's time to hear from executive director of the Electrical Safety Office, I'll get that right in a minute, Donna Heelan.

Donna Heelan:

Thanks, Chris. Electricity is certainly not an easy word to say. It's a bot of a tongue-twister. Before I start, I'd like to thank Mat for sharing his story. It's such an important message. When we look at the industry statistics, particularly in the construction and electrical industries, and the amount of men that are taking their lives on a daily and monthly basis in Queensland, they are absolutely alarming.

Donna Heelan:

Something that really resonated with me Mat, was when you talked about your goal setting. A very dear friend of mine that also lost her life at a young age from breast cancer, used to always say, "You need something to love, something to do, and something to look forward to." That's something that I really got out of your message today. My other key take away that Chris highlighted, was about looking out for your mates, which has been a real theme for the last couple days for Electricity Safety Week.

Donna Heelan:

So thank you to everyone for joining us today and thank you for our speakers. Electricity Safety Week is an important event and a really important event for you to take your time out from today. I think I said at our last webinar that just taking the time out from today is not enough. You really need to make a commitment to what you're going to do to make your workplace, your homes, and the communities in Queensland safe.

Donna Heelan:

The electrical industry in Queensland is critical for our every day way of life. It powers our workplaces, our schools, our hospitals, and the little things we take for granted. Things like our air conditioners, our computers and our phones. I did say yesterday that sometimes I would prefer not to have a phone, but today's lifestyle makes it an essential, albeit very annoying too. For those of you, I may be talking statistics that you already know, if I do, forgive me.

Donna Heelan:

In Queensland, we have approximately 12,000 licensed electrical contractors and 56,000 licensed electrical workers. During the last financial year of 2019, 2020, the Electrical Safety Office responded to 1164 electrical incidents. We conducted 1272 response assessments and completed 2369 audits, and issued 1921, excuse me, notices. One of those incidents during this time, sadly was a fatality, which is one fatality too many. I reflected about what I wanted to talk about today, and whilst I want to give you an update about the activities of the ESO, I also want to take this opportunity to remind you all about the importance of working safely, for yourself, your employees, your families, and your mates.

Donna Heelan:

Over the years I have had, and still have, a role, which means I am notified of serious workplace incidents or fatalities. It doesn't matter for me if it's 5:00 on a Friday or 2:00 on a Monday morning. It never escapes me that in that moment, the impact that that incident is going to have on that injured person or to the deceased loved ones from that day forward. The fact that that person may never walk again, will never kick a ball, will undergo many significant surgeries or months of extremely painful processes to treat burns. The mental and financial anguish and impact for those families and their friends. For those that have died at work, the family they leave behind. The dad that won't be there for Saturday's netball game. The mum that won't ever get to see her son get married. Or a parent that has the tragic task of burying their child.

Donna Heelan:

This is the ripple effect that I speak of very frequently, and the reason you need to be safe at work. The reason you need to look out for your mates. The reason you don't cut corners, and the reason you speak out if you think the task is unsafe, and the reason that you don't take risks. I don't need to tell any of you on this webinar today that electricity is a silent and deadly hazard.

Donna Heelan:

If you take one thing away from today, please let it be the message about why safety's important to you, your employees, your colleagues, your family, and your mates. I've been privileged to work with the affected family's committee over the years, and all the members of that group have either lost a loved one or have suffered a permanent life-changing injury. Whilst it's a committee that achieves such positive change and offers immeasurable support, it is a group that you or your loved ones don't want to be eligible to join.

Donna Heelan:

On that note, I wanted to touch briefly on what the Electrical Safety Office is doing and the electrical safety plan for Queensland for 2018 to 2020, and the number of areas that the amazing electrical safety team are working on. We're working to improve electrical safety for regional Queensland. We're focusing on areas that are over represented with incident data to deliver both engagement and compliance activities in those shires. These areas that we're focusing on for the next six to eight months, will include the Isaac, Hinchinbrook, Mount Isa, Cloncurry, Carpentaria, and Gladstone areas. It's even harder than electricity, Bommer, Gladstone.

Donna Heelan:

These activities will include our key priority risk areas, contact with overhead lines is sadly still happening on a daily basis. We're either putting machinery in them, we're putting farm equipment into them, we're driving into them, we're doing all sorts of things with overhead lines. Safety switches, we're a big advocate of safety switches and one safety switch is not enough. You need safety switches on all your circuits to protect your home and your loved ones that come and visit and live there. The risk of unlicensed work, which I'll speak about shortly. The risk of working near energized equipment, and buying and maintaining safe electrical equipment.

Donna Heelan:

Whilst I'm talking very briefly about working safely around energized equipment, if you haven't seen Mark's story, I really encourage you to take the time to listen to him. He has a really compelling story about the risks of working near energize parts and thankfully he's still alive to share those lessons. If you haven't seen it, have a look at our website or Google Mark's story, Arc Flash. I believe Mark will be coming to speak with us tomorrow.

Donna Heelan:

We are highlighting the importance of property owner and tenant electrical safety. We had a webinar similar to this in recent weeks, which had almost 1,500 registrations and shared the critical messages about electrical safety for landlords. We're partnering with the Residential Tenancy's Authority to continue this important dialogue. We're insuring we promote compliance by using all of our available legislative powers. In recent weeks for the first time, the Electrical Safety Office successfully made an application in the Brisbane Magistrates Court for an injunction against a company that had repeatedly failed to comply with improvement notices issued by the electrical inspectors for unlicensed electrical contracting. This is a model that we'll continue to use into the future.

Donna Heelan:

While we're talking about unlicensed electrical work, this is a big target area for us this year and something we're going to continue to pursue. As I'm sure you will all agree, unlicensed electrical work is dangerous and puts Queenslanders at risk at injury or death. Like Mat said, we don't want him putting light switches in our homes, we certainly don't want anyone doing anything electrically orientated in our homes unless they've got the right electrical licenses.

Donna Heelan:

Since March this year the inspector had issued a 112 enforcement notices and issued penalty notices in excess of $42,000 for unlicensed electrical work. This is an area that I said we continue to focus on, but I'm asking for your help, and I know Gibbo, or Michael Gibson will certainly talk to this point. You guys are out there on the field every day. You see stuff, you know when people and property are safe or unsafe. We need to be in this together and to do this you can report any non-compliant or un-electrical work you see on your daily activities by contacting the Electrical Safety Office and we will follow-up those notifications.

Donna Heelan:

In closing, this is a really important week, and Chris has mentioned, we have a number of different activities. I would encourage you all to join us tomorrow morning for the apprentices and supervisors webinar. The more people we can engage, the more we can ensure that Queenslanders can safely work and live around electricity. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks, Donna. Donna mentioned briefly that we will be joined by the director of field services from the ESO, Michael Gibson. Michael's going to talk to us this morning about unlicensed work and safety incidents, and reporting those and making sure we stay on top of those and we continue to ensure that people do the right thing. Michael? Gibbo, your turn, mate.

Michael Gibson:

Yes, thank you, Chris, and good morning everybody. As we identified, so what I want to do today is probably cover the legislative requirements of what we expect and what is mandatory to report, why it's mandatory to report, and why we want to know about it. Then we'll talk about some practical examples of what we would do when we receive some of those reports.

Michael Gibson:

Now, on your screen now, our electrical safety legislation defines two incidents and notifications that are reportable. We call them dangerous electrical events and serious electrical incidents. These both are mandatory requirements. You have to report them when you're conducting a business or undertaking. What we want to cover off, we'll look at the definitions of what they are and what I'll probably talk about some practical examples of what would constitute a dangerous electrical event or a serious electrical incident.

Michael Gibson:

Just as a little bit of background, like Donna said, we receive lots of notifications from members of the public, from employers, from concerned people, from apprentices. We would accept all those notifications, we will triage them. We've got a special department within the Electrical Safety Office, within OIR, called assessment services. Their role is to look at every notification, triage what's in it, and then they will allocate it to either ESO or Work Health and Safety. While we got definitions of what is and what isn't reportable, we're certainly not going to challenge somebody that makes that phone call. Give us the information you've got and we'll have a quick assessment of it and we'll always get back to you.

Michael Gibson:

I'll have a quick look at what these definitions are. What we want to talk about now is, we would call it dangerous electrical event, and legislation defines those dot points. We've got circumstances involving HV equipment, we've got events involving electrical equipment that may or may not cause significant property damage, and we've previously spoken about it, performance of unlicensed work. The performance of electrical work, whereas there's a lot of that work to properties that's not electrically safe. Now that can be a bit of performance by electrical contractor and it certainly can be somebody who's unlicensed. Then we'll look at some of the equipment.

Michael Gibson:

Those that don't know, a lot of plug in equipment. We look at c-tick approval process and electricians who identify equipment in the course of their business that hasn't got the appropriate c-tick markings or approval, then they can report that to us and we'll have a look at the equipment and how it came into that market.

Michael Gibson:

We'll look at some practical examples of what a dangerous electrical event is. Like we say, in regard to HV, some of the really simple ones are just fallen power lines, any HV fallen power lines or unsecured access to HV equipment whether it's substations, private networks, that type of thing, particularly plant contact with underground or overhead cabling. They're all reportable as HV incidents, they're all DEE events. If you're conducting work, you're digging up cabling, that type of thing, then any plant contact is certainly reportable to us and we'll have a look at that.

Michael Gibson:

Now, if you're working on overhead, you've got cranes working, you've got a concrete pump, any form of plant overhead and you're hitting overhead lines, certainly that's reportable to us. We've got a requirement there for significant property damage. The ultimate, probably the most common cause of significant property damage in this instance, is fires. Now, whether that equipment is plug in or whether it's part of the installation, if we have a fire that's originated from a piece of equipment or that installation, then that needs to be reported to us.

Michael Gibson:

Other examples could well be the arc flash or we'd look at... Goodness, arc flash events. Sorry, yeah. We look at arc flash, particularly where that property damage was caused by the performance of the electrical work. Now I've got examples where a neutral may be left of, we've got floating voltages, I've got other examples where we've got transposed conductors and switchboards have been damaged, that type of thing. They are all, may instigate significant property damage and they certainly need to be reported.

Michael Gibson:

We spoke about, on a number of occasions, unlicensed electrical work. Now we are taking a lot of work in this regard for this year. We're very concerned by the amount of work that people are either undertaking or advertising for on online media. We're going to blitz it and we're going to continue to blitz it, because we think it's a constant issue in our industry. Reporting unlicensed electrical work is a really important part of your life and you can provide that information to us. What we would expect, but there's that level of knowledge that you have become aware when you identify that unlicensed work. You may observe the work, you may speak to a member of the public, or you may be told by other people.

Michael Gibson:

That would all constitute as unlicensed work and it needs to be reported as much information as you can provide. It can be reported as part of that process and then our inspectors will follow it up and do a detailed review of that information you've provided. It's really helpful, if you see it, observe it, report it. We'll triage it and if we can, we'll take the action necessary as part of our legislation requirements.

Michael Gibson:

The other one we look about it is the performance of electrical work resulting in a personal property being unsafe. This is a little bit different to significant property damage. It could be a worker exposing themself. They've left a power point off a wall, they've left unterminated cabling, it could be any of those situations where as a result of that work, something now is not safe.

Michael Gibson:

The other one we talk about is serious electrical incident. Now, this is a little bit easier and a little bit less qualification. Unfortunately if a person is killed by electricity, it's a mandatory recording, that is a give me. A person receives a shock or injury and that's treated by a doctor, then that would be defined as a SEI and is reportable to us, or if a person receives a shock as a result of high voltage work. All those instances are reportable as SEI events. When they get reported to us, they'll get allocated to an inspector. An inspector will have a detailed review of that scene.

Michael Gibson:

I've got a little bit more information about what we want you to do in regard to the scene, but it's really important that we protect that scene, we don't touch any of that equipment, and then we will either release the scene over the phone or you'll get that opportunity to make it safe and then an inspector will attend and we'll take carriage of that scene in the interim.

Michael Gibson:

I mean, these types of matters they deserve to be investigated. I want people to understand that that's why you're reporting it, apart from being a mandatory requirement, the people involved in any of those incidents they deserve to know what happened. We want industry to understand that when we look at it, we're trying to confirm legislative requirements, but also trying to confirm what was the cause of it and how we can stop it happening in other situations. It's really important when we have serious electrical incidents that they get reported to us.

Michael Gibson:

That's one of the other areas we spoke about, is about that not disturbing the scene. Report the incident, but do not disturb the scene. You are allowed to make it safe, make it safe, report it to us, and then we'll follow it up with an inspector and make sure that the evidence stays as it is so we can do a detailed examination and we haven't contaminated that scene. That's pretty well it for serious electrical incidents.

Michael Gibson:

Now the other thing is the avenues that you can report those matters to us. Reporting complaints obviously we've got a website, there's clear directions in regard to the website. There's incident notification process, and there's an actual form that you'll fill out online and send that in. Also, you can email us at that email address and certainly contact us if you've got any concerns. You'll get put through one of our dedicated call staff and they'll get back to you with any information they can. At this stage, Chris, thank you.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks, Gibbo. I'm calling Gibbo, Gibbo, because we've got two Michaels, just to save the confusion, but that was Michael Gibson. We're going to move along to our next topic and solar systems, all the rage at the moment. Everybody wants one of those on top of their roof, save their energy bills, and to save the planet maybe long-term. We wanted to discuss solar PV system safety and to do that, please welcome Michael Heinemann from the Electrical Safety Office.

Michael Heinemann:

Thanks, Chris. Good morning everyone, thanks for taking the time to join us today. Today I'm going to run through a little bit about solar safety with you. To kick off I thought we'll just talk about how much is out there. As you can see there, there's quite a number of systems connected in Queensland already, 715,000. We have one in three households have solar, making us a world leader in that regard. In 2020, in July this year, you can see there 6000 businesses and residential systems were connected. In 2019, one solar system was installed every nine minutes. That means a lot of you are doing a lot of work out there.

Michael Heinemann:

If we look what's coming to the future, Queensland is expected to spike 20% of its electricity consumption by renewable energy sources and heading up to 50% by 2030. As we progress towards this target, the safety in all aspects of installing solar, so that's design, the construction, and the operation of these systems is quite crucial. Solar is becoming more affordable, and that were headed to a 50%, means we're going to end up doing a lot more work in that space.

Michael Heinemann:

When you're looking at all the aspects of your design and that and your installation, please make sure that you look at your equipment, make sure that it is compliant, it's certified, and purchased from your certified suppliers. The other thing I'd like to probably point out in that space too, is that while we're installing these things and we install them and they're compliant, we need to make sure that the follow-on phase, which is the maintenance of these things. These things are designed to last for about 20 to 25 years. We need to ensure that whoever we're providing them to is understanding that maintenance requirements. The standard reference's lifetime, and I suppose the operating, and we want it to operate safely for its lifetime and really in the Queensland sun, that's going to be a hard task.

Michael Heinemann:

The next part I thought I'd just touch on is around compliance. What you can see on your screen there is just some common concerns that we found from our audits and our sign inspections as inspectors. Under our wiring rules, AS3000, you can see there around sections two, three, and five. Starts around how you install it, how you protect it, and how you earth it, and the standard regarding to PV systems, is around section three, four, and five. The safety issues, how you install that equipment, and the marking and documentation. Very crucial to the operator and the customer to understand what's going on down the track.

Michael Heinemann:

One thing I will say though, that saying that you didn't know or you weren't aware of the standards or the compliance, is something that's not acceptable. As a professional, it's up to you to know that, it's also up to you to make sure your customer's aware of everything upfront when you're going to potentially install a system. It's not only just going in and installing a system, give them the whole picture so they know. You don't go and buy a brand new BMW and never service it in it's lifetime, so a solar system is no different.

Michael Heinemann:

Okay, and the next area there I'd just like to touch on is just making you aware of all the standard, codes of practice and guidelines that are out there. We've got the big one at the top there which is our bible, wiring rules, AS3000. 3008 for your cable selection, 5033 and 4777 in regards to your inverters and your PV systems, 5139, which is our battery standards, which has just been released. Some of you may be aware of the code of practice for the construction operation of solar farms and I'll touch a little bit more on that later. Also, don't forget your industry bodies for your technical help and guidance information, particularly around certified products, if you're unsure what you're buying is not correct, and also for your design installation practices.

Michael Heinemann:

A couple of things on those standards, 5033, amendments one and two have now been published for 12 months, so that they're certainly enforced, and certainly the new battery standard 5139. The other thing to touch on too with standard, codes of practice guidelines, make sure you're up to date as I said previously. Not knowing or saying, "I wasn't aware," really isn't an excuse. Does your business have a mechanism for keeping your work practices and standards current?

Michael Heinemann:

Okay, the next area I wanted to touch on, was isolators and disconnectors. You can see on your screen there, we can see what happens when things go wrong and they end up on a black goopy mess on the roof or potentially somewhere else. These pieces of equipment are vital for a solar system, for it's safe operation, for it's maintenance and for isolation in an emergency. The correct installation is vital. Ensure you select the appropriate one for it, it's going to be installed. Looking at it's location, it's voltage, it's current rating, is it a certified product? That's when you would start to look at the electrical equipment safety scheme database, or the EESS data base, which we've developed and are pushing out. When they're installed, as you can see there on the picture on the left, they install it vertically unless you're allowed to install them otherwise by the manufacturer.

Michael Heinemann:

You're cables enter into these, or your conduits enter in, enter in through the bottom, not through the top face. The idea being that we want this long-term water ingress to not be an issue, so being the way it is, it'll hopefully keep the water out. When you mount it, seal it up, seal it up appropriately as per the manufacturers instructions, ensuring that you've got a nice tight seal and no water can get in there. The other thing too, if it's out in the weather, make sure you've got an appropriate shroud over it so that it's not exposed to direct weather or sunlight, so that you maintain the running of the enclosure.

Michael Heinemann:

Installation practices. What you can see on your screen there is what happens when it's not quite installed quite right, ends up a lovely charred mess. Depending on where it is, it can cause quite a lot of damage. Some of the common things that we do come across when we're doing our inspections is in particular cables laying on roofs, plastic cable ties used as primary support, cable glands are not the appropriate type. As an example, just a single hole gland, once you use it for multiple cables, you should have a multi hole gland. IP ratings are not being maintained, so silicon is not appropriate, nor is drilling holes in enclosures to drain the moisture. Conduits not joined appropriately, lose connections or mismatched connectors. All these things you'll find have been standard pick up on our standards through various amendments. Make sure you cross these and install the things correctly.

Michael Heinemann:

One of the biggest problems we do have with the solar systems is water ingress. As soon as it gets in, we start to have the issues, we start to see some of the pictures you've seen before. Okay, I just wanted to touch on earthing a little bit here. If we just look at this picture here, it just looks like a pretty good example of an earthed PV module. If you have a little close look at it, you can actually see there, what would appear to have a chemical reaction between dissimilar metals, which has occurred over a period of time. Now, that will affect the earthing of that module, so it's critical that you get the earthing of your systems correct to ensure that everything gets kept at earth potential and leads to no one getting a shock off a system if there was something wrong.

Michael Heinemann:

Ensure that your connections are fit for purpose, follow any manufactures instructions. That would include any tool setting, particularly when you're tightening up a bolt. Make sure it's protected against corrosion, ensure that the system can be maintained or have repairs done to it without affecting earthing of the whole system. Make sure you never use self-tapping screws or POP rivets to make your connections onto the frames.

Michael Heinemann:

Okay, roof spaces, many of you can probably point out a lot of things in that picture of what's wrong and what's right. Just wanted to point out that roof spaces can be a dangerous place for anyone going into those. Very important with solar DC cables when they are run in ceiling spaces or wall cavities or under floors for that matter, that they are running metallic or HD conduit. Your AC cables, if they're running in this space, are to be run as the requirements of AS3000, particularly pay attention to the areas that are deemed likely to be disturbed so that you put the appropriate mechanical protection in there. The other part with the roof space is your own work procedures. When you're getting up into these spaces to do some work, we recommend turning the power off and also having a safe system of work to manage yourself while you're in that space.

Michael Heinemann:

Safe operations, so the safe operation of a system is crucial, not only for just turning it on, but also over it's lifetime and the different people that may interact with it. A solar system is a long-term investment for an owner or a business or anyone that matter. It's very, I suppose, crucial that they are aware of the requirements to have that system operating safely. I'm going to be touching on the maintenance requirements.

Michael Heinemann:

In 5033, clause 5.7, it gives you that you must provide the customer documentation. That documentation will include maintenance. Also, look at the manufacturers instructions on it to be able to put together a detailed plan for your customer. The other parts of that, we talk about the labelling, so the labelling of it teaches how to operate it correctly, provides detailed information for emergency situations, how to shut it down.

Michael Heinemann:

Okay, I said earlier that I'd touch a little on solar farms or what is not a solar farm. From the code of practice there you can see a short little definition around what a solar farm is considered to be, of at least a 100kW, and will be operated or maintained by a person conducting a business or undertaking. With that said, solar farms are not just parcels of land with thousands of panels on them, with a direct connection to the HV network, they can be simply on top of a building like we're in today that qualify into that definition. It's something we're coming across a little bit more and more in our inspections that persons conducting a business or undertaking aren't aware that they actually have a solar farm, the code of practice that comes into play to provide them information to meet their duties.

Michael Heinemann:

Please ensure that, if you are in this area, that your customers are aware of that. Section five of that code of practice details, how to meet your duties in regards to operation and maintenance? Some other considerations I'd just like to raise. I mean, we are talking about electrical safety this week, but given that it is solar systems and where they're installed, I'd just like to touch on a couple of other ones, which are around falls from heights, slips, trips and falls. Things falling from heights, objects, hazardous manual tasks, depending on where you are, particularly say an example a solar farm and installing thousands of infusers. You may have a plant onsite, exposed to the noise, excavation on the larger jobs, heat stress and fatigue management. Please keep your other considerations in relation to work with health and safety at the forefront of your mind as well. With that being said, that's me. Thank you very much.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks, Michael. You can see on the screen there some of the key contact details there, the 1300 number, 1300362128, and then our website contact details for all things ESO. Well, it's time now to put our speakers to a panel situation. If you'd like to throw a question at either of the Michaels, or to Mat Rogers, all you have to do is type your name and question via the chat box to the right of your screen. Get them in quick, because we've only got about 10 or 15 minutes to wind up today's proceedings. Get in as many questions as we can to Mat, Michael, and of course, Gibbo. You guys all good to go? Yes, I can see the three wise men, yes.

Michael Heinemann:

Yeah.

Michael Gibson:

Ready.

Chris Bombolas:

First question is from Dom and it's to Mat. You spoke about setting goals with your wife every three months, what's your next big goal in life? Share with us what it is in the next three months other than going to a hotel on the Gold Coast again, one that you haven't been to so far.

Mat Rogers:

Well, thanks Chris. Thanks, Dom. Well, there's a couple of things we're working on a lot right now. Our son Max he's 14, we're working on getting him involved in sport and finding the right sort of path for him. That's the big goal at the moment, that's the one we're really focusing on. All our other kids are really active, Max is a little bit sort of more , so we're trying to sort of get him out there and get him into stuff, and I'm writing a book at the moment. I'm writing it, not ghost, that's me, yes. You heard that here. Yeah, the goal is to have a number one bestseller.

Chris Bombolas:

Having heard you speak today and with some of the content, possible content that could be in it, I'll be the first one to line up for a copy of that one. I've got a quick question before we go to our next question, and it's to you Michael, not Gibbo, Michael Heinemann. Michael, you spoke about the installations and it was aimed at contractors and electricians and the experts. As a consumer, as someone who has a solar system on his roof and it's only recently been put in, how do I know all of that has been done correctly? I'm no expert. I can't look up at the roof and go, "Gee, I hope everything's good." How do I know or have the confidence that that work is competent in the first place?

Michael Heinemann:

I guess we'll go back probably to the start there, that Chris, most important thing is to make sure the person you've got installing it is licensed.

Chris Bombolas:

Yup.

Michael Heinemann:

You can do that on our website and check they are licensed. At the end of the job though, your contractor will give you required documentation around your solar system and also documentation to say they've done the work safely according to our electrical legislation, which is called a certificate of compliance or you might here it being called a certificate of test. He's got to give you one of those and that's actually him saying that, "I've done the work for you today. This is the work I've done and it has been done to the regulations." You'll also find some electrical contractors are registered as a clean energy installer, so they've also gone through a process where their work is audited to ensure that they are installing to the regulations, to the standards, and they guarantee that work as well.

Chris Bombolas:

Going back to Gibbo and your presentation, that if that work hasn't been done correctly and he signed a document that says I've done that to the proper standards, then they're liable for that or could face potential prosecution?

Michael Heinemann:

Yeah, that's what I'd say yes to. Now, if you come across that and you think somethings not quite right as Michael said, we've got reporting mechanisms there. Comes through, gets triaged and someone like myself potentially will be knocking on your door to ask to have a look at it and do that check out for you.

Chris Bombolas:

The unfortunate part about that is that quite often it's not until an incident occurs or a problem occurs that you realize that there is a problem.

Michael Heinemann:

Yes, that's right, unfortunately, yeah.

Chris Bombolas:

Mm-hmm.

Michael Heinemann:

I suppose what I said, upfront, making sure they are licensed to start with, they should be giving you at least a certificate which sometimes may be on an invoice to say that they've done it to the standard, at least you've got something to say of that nature. Other thing I suppose to look for, you might notice that the person is affiliated to industry bodies and things like that to give you some assurance that they've got the technical help behind to do the job.

Chris Bombolas:

Cool. Okay. Let's go back to you, Mat. We've got a question from Nicole, and Nicole's wondering, how do you manage every day stress? In addition to the Queen's tips on how to manage an injury, mam was very good to you on that occasion in the 90 seconds that you spent with her and her corgi's. What else have you found effective?

Mat Rogers:

Well, on the stress front I'll say that stress it's in everyone's life, I mean, that's the reality of it. We've all got things, but one thing that I've learnt to do is to manage it. Making sure I'm not creating more by not doing what I'm meant to do. I think we create a lot of stress in our life by making poor decisions and I think a lot of the things that we potentially should be doing and that we are doing are probably different and that can create some stress in your life. I try to get on top of things early and quick. My life's a bit of a zoo. There's a lot going on with kids and different stuff and a lot of stuff like this that I do and writing a book. There's a lot of stuff that sort of can build up in my life and I try to be as organized as possible. That's probably one of the most important things that I find, is being organized and having things in order and then just ticking off boxes really, and it feels good.

Mat Rogers:

I mean, I got to tell you, when I've got something that I have to do and it's sort of stressing me out, I just sort of try to break it down into little steps. If you look at the whole big picture of what you've got to do at the end of the day, it can really sort of fluster you a little bit and create a little bit more stress that's undue. I'd say just sort of stay on top of the little things and the big picture will sort of come into focus.

Mat Rogers:

On the injury side of things, I have had a lot of injuries in my life, there's no question. Some little ones and some big ones, but I just sort of see professionals. I let them do their job. That's probably the most important thing. I've been known to be pretty good at the old self-diagnosis, but I've realized that Dr. Google isn't quite as good as actually going and sitting down with someone who's got years and years of experience and helping me understand what I need to do to get things better. If I can recommend anything, it's yeah, stuff the internet and go and see a professional.

Chris Bombolas:

You played in an era where they were just coming into that professional medical treatment and stuff like that, with ice baths and recovery and all of that. Injury prevention, were you any good at that?

Mat Rogers:

No.

Chris Bombolas:

No.

Mat Rogers:

I didn't like stretching. The ice baths I still scratch on my head and wonder what they were good for, but I'm sure that they do something. No, it wasn't ideal, but look, at the end of the day, if you're in a physical workspace, you're going to hurt yourself. I always used to say, when I played a game of football, it wasn't like, "If this is going to hurt," it's how much it's going to hurt today. That's the reality of the profession that I played, but it's just staying on top of things. The prevention wasn't so good, but definitely the post injury or soreness or whatever I had to deal with, I made sure that I got on top of it pretty quick.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, another one for you. If you see signs in mate or a family member that they're struggling, what's the best way to check in, because it's always an awkward conversation? I think as humans we feel awkward started that conversation. How do you check in on them without making it really obviously that you're checking in?

Mat Rogers:

I don't think it's an issue not to be obvious, I really don't. When I was going through a bit of a challenge a couple years ago and my brother was very upfront of why he wanted to speak to me, and it made me feel good about that he'd recognized something. Can I just say this, I don't want this to come across the wrong way, you know in Australia it's like, "Let's go have a beer and have a chat?" Can I just recommend not doing that? Go and do it over a cup of coffee, or go and do it in an environment that doesn't change your way of thinking. I think it's so easy as Australian's, it's just, "Let's go to the pub and have a beer and check in on how things are going." I think you got to give this situation the time and the importance that it deserves. If you feel like a mate's struggling, be brave, that's probably one of the other things I'd say. Be brave and have the courage to go and sit down and check in, because I'll tell you what's harder, is dealing with the consequence of not.

Mat Rogers:

I had to deal with that and albeit I didn't recognize the signs at the time, but I'll tell you what, if I had the opportunity to go back in time and sit down in front of my dad and ask him the tough questions that needed to be asked, I'll tell you what, it would've been a lot easier than dealing with what I had to deal with, all the ramifications of not. Be brave, I'll say. Go and sit down in an environment that isn't influenced by alcohol, and ask the question. Be real, I mean, that's probably the most important thing, being real. Don't be flippant about it. Ask the question, if you don't feel like you've got the right answer, ask it again. It's not that people don't want to tell you, but it's a hard thing to talk about when you're struggling, and I've been there.

Mat Rogers:

It's hard to talk about, but they'll be grateful as a friend, or a family member, if you've gone down and sit with them and you've taken the time out. You've been brave enough to ask them how they're doing, what can you do to help, and maybe recommending going and seeing someone.

Chris Bombolas:

Gibbo, one for you. This is coming from Wayne in Wayne's World. He wants to know, when you report an incident, what happens next? Where does it go from there?

Michael Gibson:

Okay, Wayne. Yeah, I think I discussed it a little bit. Yeah, when you report an incident to us, you'll certainly get a record of that report and then it'll be triaged internally. Now, if that triaging requires that matter to be allocated to an inspector, then an inspector will be allocated the job, and you'll certainly be contacted by the inspector. He'll attend site, if that's possible, conduct his examination on site, and if it's required, he'll take the necessary enforcement action. Now, our priority in most instances is going to be to address the electrical safety risk of that report and then we'll determine if there's been any breaches in legislation and the inspector will take that appropriate enforcement action. In any case you'll always get a feedback or result of that outcome, whether there has or hasn't been enforcement action taken. The person who's made that notification will always be informed on the outcome of the investigation.

Chris Bombolas:

Okay. Great. Fair advice. We've got a couple more questions, we need to wind up the panel session and bring a close our presentation. For you Michael another one, for installers what's the biggest risk and how do they eliminate it?

Michael Heinemann:

Okay, so just the biggest risk is not probably understanding the job first before you go into it. It's very important that you go and check it out first. From what I've seen originally in solar, that our system was sold by someone who didn't have any knowledge of what needed to be done, which then put pressure on the person installing that. To hit the targets of whether it was you're only needing X amount of dollars to install this or you've only got X amount of hours or days or whatever it is to get the job done. I would certainly recommend take the time to go and have a look and assess it properly. No different to any risk assessment methodology they would use in the safety world as well. Certainly don't shortcut the corners. I think to eliminate that risk is a thorough inspection of the job at first.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, here's another one for you. If you can drill holes in a DC isolator enclosure to drain out water, what can you do to prevent moisture build up?

Michael Heinemann:

I guess the first thing is ensuring from the onset that you install it as per the instructions from the manufacturer. The enclosures should be designed and certified to a name or level, which is a requirement now from our regulations. If you still coming across these types of issues, I recommend going back to the manufacturer and having that discussion around what else can we do. He may be able to fit a purpose made any condensation drain, you can only fit those if the manufacturer's going to allow them to be fitted or they have one for that product that you're using.

Chris Bombolas:

Okay. You might know this one, Michael. This name looks familiar, Brian R. Where can I find out more info on battery installation? Is this a loaded question by the way, do we know Brian R?

Michael Heinemann:

No, I wouldn't know at all after the last couple of days. As I mentioned earlier, there is the new standard 5139, but from an industry perspective there are a group of industry bodies that have got together and put together a best practice guide around battery installations and their electrical requirements. If you Google best battery installation, you'll get some searches there around a guide, which you can download. It doesn't cost you anything to download it, go grab it. It gives you steps through the stages of your installation, to how to install it. It also, sorry, gives you a risk management process as well, particularly when you're dealing with batteries and explosions and things like that.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, last question, and I thank everybody at home who's logged in or at work and joining us for our webinar this morning, particularly with some of the questions that you've offered up for our panel. You can bring us home, Gibbo. This is from Bill M. compliance activity. What and how will you be engaging in the following areas, and we know from yesterday from the summit about regional and rural Queensland has got a few issues that are bubbling and that we need to address urgently. So the following areas, Isaac, Hinchinbrook, Mount Isa, Cloncurry, Gladstone.

Michael Gibson:

Yeah, I mean, as Donna stated, those areas did come up in hospital admissions data and some of our data that we evaluate. We certainly don't want to just concentrate on areas where there's high levels of population. We do want to get our inspectors out into the regions and those particular locations like Isa and Cloncurry and Gladstone, we are planning on doing like a one week activity where we will do a bit of a combination of engagement and compliance activities. Now, we will certainly liaise with the local councils, the major contractors in those areas where we can actually have some one-on-one discussion with them. Have a look at some of the installations, any new constructions that are going on out there and just really get that rapport going with them so they feel a little bit more confident, they can report matters to us, and we get a bit of our feel of how the compliance level is going out in those regions.

Michael Gibson:

Like I said, they are remote some of those areas, but they certainly shouldn't feel like we're not going to engage with them and we will take enforcement action in those areas where we do determine and identify breaches of our legislation. That's really important for us, Chris. Yeah.

Chris Bombolas:

Yeah, and look, it won't be engagement just with the electrical experts, you'll be with community leaders, real estate, with key players in that industry.

Michael Gibson:

I think that's critical, Chris. I mean, yeah if we got the major players, like the real estate. Yeah, I agree. Sometimes we won't know all the key stakeholders, but we'll do a lot of research at that front end and we welcome people contacting us in those areas to come and find us and see what we can do.

Chris Bombolas:

Including the CWA?

Michael Gibson:

Oh, yes.

Chris Bombolas:

Who we heard from yesterday, who will be having an ear into the husbands to make sure they are electrically safe.

Michael Gibson:

Yes, the worlds great influences.

Chris Bombolas:

Yes. Well, thank you very much to the panel for joining us, for answering your questions. Thank you for your questions. Certainly there's a few other ways you can get involved in electricity safety week, which runs through until the 11th. Every day this week we are posting a question for electrical workers on our Facebook page. All you have to do is answer the question correctly and you could win one of five $100 trade equipment voucher. Well worth taking the time to answer a simple question and who knows, you could be getting that $100 trade equipment voucher. If you're an electrical apprentice or a supervisor, why not join us tomorrow morning at the bright and bubbly time of 6:30 AM where we will have another webinar, specifically aimed at you guys.

Chris Bombolas:

Today's webinar was recorded, minus Mat's presentation as a whole. It will be available at electricalsafety.qld.gov.au, along with a wide range of other electrical safety information and resources. Shortly we will be emailing all of you guys who joined us today, a feedback survey. We really do value your feedback. It helps us shape these kind of events, particularly now that we're moving into a digital world and we need to look at different ways of connecting with our audiences. Love your feedback, let us know what you like, what you didn't like, what you want more of, what you want less of. We take that all into consideration when we mould these events for 2021 and into the future.

Chris Bombolas:

Just in closing, on behalf of the Electrical Safety Office, I'd just like to say thanks to our very special guest, Mat Rogers. Good luck with the book, Mat. Really appreciate you sharing and opening up to us and showing us the way to open up ourselves.

Mat Rogers:

No worries.

Chris Bombolas:

Thank you, good luck in the future.

Mat Rogers:

Pleasure.

Chris Bombolas:

We look forward to you joining us in future events. For you at home, thanks for joining us, or at work, we appreciate you joining us here and taking part in our webinar. We hope to see you in the very near future, but in the meantime, please stay safe, especially electrically.

[End of Transcript]

Chris Bombolas:

Good morning everyone, and welcome to our apprentice and supervisor webinar. I'm Chris Bombolas, I'll be your MC for this very special presentation. Can I firstly start by acknowledging respectfully the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we meet and elders past, present and emerging. Well, as you're well aware, it is Electricity Safety Week and we've had a host of activities going on and today is no exception. Electricity Safety Week reminds us all, that while electricity helps power our everyday lives, it can be dangerous.

Chris Bombolas:

The ESO is hosting free digital events focusing on health and safety in the industry, particularly, a focus on mental health. These events are tailored for industry leaders, electrical workers, contractors and apprentices. On Tuesday we had the Electricity Safety Summit and heard from Dave Burt, talking about the challenges he faced at work while he battled depression. Yesterday, our webinar for electrical contractors and electricians featured football legend and Australian survivor champion Matt Rogers, and my god, he was very inspiring when he spoke about the challenges that he's faced, including how he manages stress and personal loss.

Chris Bombolas:

Today, of course, very shortly we're going to catch up with the boys from Aussie workwear brand; TradeMutt, Dan and Ed. They'll be looking at the stigmas around mental health during our digital session, especially for you guys, the apprentices and supervisors in the electrical industry. Today also happens to be World Suicide Prevention Day, and R U Okay? Day. That reminds me of what Dave Burt told us, or informed us about and it's a question that we should be asking our mates, what's happening in your world? To open discussions that quite often are very difficult to have. So on World Suicide Prevention Day and R U Okay? Day I'd like to encourage you all to maybe get the ear of a mate and ask, "What's happening in your world?"

Chris Bombolas:

As I said, today we have some very special guests, the boys from TradeMutt, Dan and Ed, Glen Cook from Energy Queensland will be joining us as well, and arc flash survivor Mark. So I acknowledge their presence today and their contribution in our presentation today. If you have questions for our speakers, because we do have a panel session at the end, type your full name and question via the chat box to the right of the livestream, we'll ask them during the panel session at the end of our session today. Your full name must be entered, so you are eligible for a competition that we have as well, and we know who to contact. To change the size of your screen, select the four small arrows next to the volume bar at the bottom of your screen.

Chris Bombolas:

Now, I mentioned the competition, we love a competition at the ESO. We have five TradeMutt vouchers to give away today. You'll learn a bit more about TradeMutt from Dan and Ed very, very shortly, but the gift vouchers will allow you to select from a range of bright, out there, high quality workwear shirts, and hats, and gear. So get your questions ready. Dan and Ed are wearing some of those examples today, and they are bright, and they are loud, and they get the message across. So I look forward to catching up with the boys very, very shortly. For your chance to win those TradeMutt vouchers, all you need to do is submit the question for any of our speakers, so stay tuned, get those questions in. If your question gets asked during the panel session, you'll go into the draw to win those vouchers.

Chris Bombolas:

If you're watching from a conference or teaching rooms, and I know we have a number of those out there in digital world, you can still participate. All you have to do is get your phones, register via the website, if you haven't already, and submit your questions via the chat box like everybody else, and bingo, you're in there with a chance to win those TradeMutt vouchers. One of the real issues in the electrical industry is arc flash. Today, we'll hear from a survivor, Mark, very, very shortly. Mark's arc flash accident left him in hospital for around three weeks and off work for almost three months. Mark's sharing his story to raise awareness about life-saving consequences of working live. So let's hear Mark's story.

Mark:

I've been an electrician for about 18 years now and I'm very confident in what I do, and I still ended in hospital. I've got up that day, a standard day, not thinking anything of it. I said I'll bounce in and do that power quality assessment we had to do. I'd assessed the work to be done live, and I was very confident of what had to get done, it was possible to do it live. All I need to do is clip on these four crocodile clips, which isn't a hard task, you know what I mean? I can see the buzz bar. I've clipped on the first one. And then I went to clip on the second one. But as soon as I've touched it, it just went boom. Just white-yellow flashed on my face and just a really disgusting noise. And then I wasn't unconscious, but I realized what had happened and I could just smell it. All my hair burnt, my skin was all burning and I could see all my clothes were burnt and things. My skin was hanging off and that. I was just all black.

Mel:

So when I first found out that he'd had the accident, I was at work, but when I answered the phone I couldn't actually understand what he was saying. He was all gibberish. But all I got was, "I'm in a bad way, I'm being taken to hospital." I just, I panicked, yeah?

Mark:

In Mark's case, while he was working on the switchboard, as a result of attempting to pull off two pieces of insulation, he exposed the risk of two separate electrical phases. In bridging that out with his screwdriver, he's created a large arc flash with high volt current available inside the switchboard, which resulted in a large fireball, which burnt Mark considerably.

Mel:

When I first walked in to see him, he was in a hospital bed and he was just black, and his hair was singed.

Mark:

The injuries that I actually sustained would've been, it was actually 12 per cent body burns. So that involved skin grafts. For that to heal, they grind your skin off and then lay it on top of the burns.

Mel:

So the next day after the skin grafts, as soon as I walked into his room in the burns ward, he was just head to toe in bandages. He looked like a mummy. I think that's when it hit me.

Mark:

The first week was not an enjoyable time. I was on splints, full arm splints, leg splints, couldn't even pick my own nose. Every second day I had to get all my dressings took off. So you've got dressings stuck on your skin grafts all stuck in here, so you need to go in your shower and then get all wetted up to release all the stickiness of it. And then take it off, and it just sticks to your skin and it's sore. I didn't know what I going to look like. I ended up in hospital for three weeks, and off work for three months. And what I didn't realize then during what I was going through, how it hurt Mel. How it emotionally strained her. Mentally and emotionally. It's not a nice feeling that the person you love is obviously upset and hurt because of what's happened to you.

Mel:

Mark definitely didn't realize how much his accident had affected me, the realization of how serious it was. He could've died. Just had no idea. When Mark started having his rehab, that was hard, because he had been in hospital for such a long period of time without moving. He was really happy when he called me that he told me he'd walked for the first time with his Zimmer frame. So he still had to lean on it, but I was really proud.

Mark:

It was also a big emotional burden that's getting put on your loved ones, whether it be wife, your family, your parents or something. It thus puts an emotional burden on them.

Mel:

He loves his work. He loves to be always keeping his mind active. So when he couldn't go straight back to work that also held some frustrations and I think a little bit of anger. I was really happy to see him back at work. I do want to be with him for the rest of my life, so I am grateful that he has healed.

Mark:

You can prevent arc flash by eliminating the hazard. Turn the power off and isolate the equipment. Even if that means rescheduling the work for another time. Remember, working near energized parts can be just as dangerous as performing live work. Arc flash risk isn't just limited to large switchboards, they can also occur in smaller switchboards, electrical supply pillars, and even large electrical equipment. So plan your work, and always follow your safe working procedures.

Mark:

I think one thing that I would like to get out there after my accident is just to, all the other Sparkies out there, is just don't work live. Don't put yourself in situations where, or like I was, just because you're trying to please a client, just because you're trying to get the job done faster. If you've got a wife, kids, family, it's just not worth it. Nothing's worth your life.

Chris Bombolas:

Well, that is an inspiring story, and Mark is truly grateful that he is a survivor because it could've gone very, very, very badly south. It is a pleasure that I introduce Mark. He does have a message for each and every one of the 56,000 electrical workers and 12,000 contractors in Queensland. Mark, please join us.

Mark:

Thank you Chris. Okay, thank you. Well, good morning everyone. It's an early one this morning. First of all, I'd just like to thank Electrical Safety Office, and Workplace Queensland, and Chris as well for just giving me the opportunity to speak again at one of the webinars, just to try and emphasize the point I was trying to get across here. I think as well sometimes that we forget that, especially now more than ever, that the world's in a bit of a crazy situation at the moment, that we also need to sit back sometimes and remember that we're lucky enough to be living in a society, or live in a country where we've got organizations, or governments as such, that are willing to spend money to teach us electricians, or try and educate us and just give something back to us. So basically, all of this is done just to keep my fellow electricians safe. So we might not agree with the governments and that at times, but I think when they put money aside to do things like this for us, it's appreciated.

Mark:

So it's supervisors and apprentice day today, and as a Sparkie, sure there's a few Sparkies out there watching. I'm sure we all know that we've... I believe anyway that it is every tradesman's or supervisor's duty of care or social responsibility to train our apprentices, because I'm sure we've all worked with that one apprentice, or a few apprentices, I'll try not to swear here, that's pretty incompetent. So what we need to remember as being tradesmen, Sparkies, even Chippies, plumbers and that. I believe that these apprentices, they don't really know anything when they come to work as Tradies. So it's up to us. I'd say we've got a social responsibility to teach them. And I think when it comes to safety, you want to be teaching these guys at a very young age. And if they are coming out of it 16, 17, 18 years old, you've got to spend that time on a young gun, teach them about the risks associated with the future career. And that's our responsibility.

Mark:

That's you, you're the supervisor, you're the foreman, you're the team leader. It's your responsibility to sit down with the younger guys and run through your safe work method statements with them. When you're building these safe work method statements you obviously need to consult all your workers in them when you're making them. So when they're young apprentices explain to them, and explain to them why we've got control measures to reduce the risks.

Mark:

And that's something I think, I like having apprentices, because I like to teach them, and I like to just make sure they're learning because it's a nice, comforting feeling when you see them progress in their trade, or as a person as well. So just, if you're a supervisor and you're wanting that extra money in your salary, then you've got to earn it. And I think teaching and ingraining safety in the youngsters is definitely where you need to start.

Mark:

It's things like your safe work method statements for your high risk work or tasks you're doing every day. You need to make sure when the guys are signing these and before the jobs, and you need to make sure they're reading them, and you want to make sure they understand them, because anyone can sign that bit of paper and go off and do their job. But you've got that responsibility to make sure they understand and make sure they're implementing these control measures. And also for maybe some guys that are only working on larger sites, they may be doing multiple service calls each day. You're going to make sure your job safety analysis are getting done, prior to any work getting started.

Mark:

And what I used to do was, I'd get the apprentices to fill them out. Obviously, I'm with them, but I'm getting them used to filling out those paperwork and actually having a look around and identifying hazards. Getting them to think about it. Not just saying, "Look, sign this bit of paper here." But actually, explain to them what they'll do. Just because if we don't teach them when they're young, they're not going to turn into good tradesmen and we may get unfortunate accidents happen.

Mark:

So, just really keep on at them and they're not going to get it first time, they're only young boys, man. So just make sure you're spending that time and addressing why we take a few steps back before we do any work and assess the risks. And then if we need to implement some control measures, we implement them and safely do that. And then for example is, it's just something I've seen over the last year or two, as there's been a few Sparkies have been dying when they're working in roofs, or working on conductive roofs. And I just think that's something that we need to remember is, when you're jumping up there, you're just going to do some residential work. You might just be helping out a friend, or a family friend.

Mark:

So you really need to remember is, there could be a lot of dodgy work done before you and so obviously the insulation that was getting installed that way, always quite dangerous. So if you're crawling in roof spaces, that should actually really be turning the power off before you go in there. Addressing the fact that there could be some unseen or unknown electrical hazards in that roof. And I really think that... I've seen that in even the last few months the guys haven't been doing it and I've been explaining to them, "Look, I don't care if the customer is not happy about the power going off. You turn that power off, or you don't go in that roof. And sometimes you've got to stand up and say, "No, that's just the way we're doing it. I don't care if you're sitting playing on your computer or if you're doing something. I'm going to turn your power off, because that's a safe way of doing it.""

Mark:

So just make sure you're speaking to your apprentices, and make sure you keep an eye on them. And if they're doing their own GSAs, checking them, and chatting to them about it. I know it's R U Okay? Day today, and I think it's quite fitting as we're working in teams to always have a chat with the guys, how they're doing. So we're honoured today having boys from Trademutt here, which will be speaking to you in a bit more depth about mental health and they'll know a lot more about me. But as a man, as a Sparkie, and I enjoy working in teams, I always feel when you're working in a team environment, you really want to be speaking with the guys that you're working with, making sure they're okay. I'm sure we've all been in situations where you've got colleagues that, they might not be performing a 100%, or they might just be being a bit awkward, or a bit weird, or a bit not themselves that day.

Mark:

And maybe it's somebody that you don't like as well, but I always think you should just put yourself in their shoes, and instead of jumping down someone's throat if they mess up, have a chat to them and say, "Look, mate. Is everything all right?" Do you know what I mean? "You've got some problems at home?" They might be arguing with their Mrs. They might have issues. They might have financial issues. So I think before we start getting on people's backs or when people frustrated, you should just have a chat with them. It's just is easy to assume things, but you should just chat with them and ask them if everything's going okay and don't be harsh on people before you know what's going on in their minds. So that's basically me, short and sweet this morning guys. But thank you, cheers.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks Mark. Some very important messages there. And for all of you at home, especially the apprentices and supervisors, take heed of the warnings and the messages, it may save someone's life. And there is an extra special footnote in Mark's story. His beautiful and brave partner, Mel, you saw her in the film. Mark and her are getting married in the not-too-distant future. So on behalf of the ESO and all of us, we'd like to wish you two guys all the best in the future. So, thanks for joining us this morning Mark.

Chris Bombolas:

If you'd like to ask Mark a question, don't forget we've got the panel session coming up a little bit later. You could submit your questions. Type your full name and question via the chat box to the right of the screen. Asking questions puts you in the draw, remember, for the Trademutt gift vouchers. We've got five of those to give away. And just as a final footnote, Mark's film, which is Mark, Arc Flash Survivor, can be found at electricitysafety.qld.gov.au, along with a wide range of other electrical safety sources.

Chris Bombolas:

I've got a question for you out there who are watching. Hands up those who know about the Look Up and Live power line mapping app? Anyone? Yep, excellent. We've got a few hands up here. Well, the guy behind that is going to join us now. And I refer to Glen Cook. Cookie, as he's known affectionately from Energy Queensland. Now Cookie, has been electrician for 30 years in the construction and utilities industry. Extremely passionate about power line safety awareness, and we know that, because we do a lot of work with Cookie, and he is out there pedalling those messages. He was the driving force behind the award winning Look Up and Live free power line mapping application that helps workers plan work next to power lines. A very important issue in this industry. And to talk about his baby, here is Glen Cook.

Cookie:

Thanks Bomma. Well thank you Chris, great introduction. Thanks to the ESO for inviting me here today to talk a little bit about myself and the Look Up and Live app. As Chris said, I have been an electrician for around 30 years now. But the bulk of that time, I was on the tools, plotting poles, digging holes, putting power lines back up. Unfortunately, part of that role is, I've done over 300 shock investigations.

Cookie:

Now, part of that role as a senior inspector, as I got to be towards the middle part of my career, was attending fatalities and very serious incidents, much like Mark was talking about before where people have received severe burns and obviously, fatalities. So, my career changed about 10 years ago. Like I said, I was on the tools. I was a work group leader, as you call it, or a supervisor. I got a phone call and a accident had happened about 400 meters down the road from our depot in Hervey Bay.

Cookie:

So my boys were all at work and they're 10, 15 minutes away and I realized it was just down the road. So I said, "I'll jump in my car and go find out what's going on." I started driving down the road. I pulled up at a set of traffic lights, and I could see to my right there's a worker on top of an elevated work platform, and there's some paramedics trying to revive a person. And I've instantly gone, "This is worse than I thought."

Cookie:

You hate coming to these incidents, right? I immediately thought to myself, selfish I know, but I thought, "Why me again?" I had been to several of these incidents. I looked to my left, and it's the Hervey Bay High School. There's about 80 to a 100 kids all lined up on the fence, and they've seen it happen. So I've gone to myself, "Why don't people, why don't workers understand the laws that are around power lines?" Everything I talk about today, it is the law. The laws are in for an obvious reason. Just, people do not actually see the power lines when they're working near them.

Cookie:

So on this particular day, it was a painter operating that elevated work platform. The power lines that you can see there on the slides are 11,000 volts. So on this particular day, the painter was using an aluminium paint roller. Now, he didn't even touch those power lines. He just got too close, an arc formed, it went through him, and he was killed instantly.

Cookie:

Now, when that arc forms, it's 20 to 30,000 degrees Celsius. Like you've had a cup of coffee this morning? 70 to 80 degrees. It's 30,000 in an instant. Just a tremendous release of energy in that one point in time. We've had several fatalities in our business over the past few years. This was the last incident that occurred up in Cairns in July last year, where an operator of a Frontier crane, while moving a load around and the Frontier crane contacted an overhead power line, and the Dogger that was looking after the load was killed instantly.

Cookie:

These incidents are real, they're happening all the time. There has been seven fatalities in Queensland since 2016, and over 60 serious, high voltage contacts that are resulting in burns, serious injuries, and obviously, equipment damage. And the thing is, like we talked about before, mental health. And I've come across these incidents, so it's not just the families, and the workers, and the machinery involved, it's the Ergon and Energex workers that have to come and be involved in these incidents and their families as well. So it's just another thing to remember.

Cookie:

Why do people hit power lines? I always ask this when I do a presentation. Now the electricians out there can probably answer yes, but if you ask yourself, when you came to work this morning, how many people seen a power line? Most people would be sitting there, look at themselves going, "How did Cookie know I didn't see any power lines this morning?"

Cookie:

It's because of one thing. It's called inattentional blindness. Basically, our eyes and our brain don't work that well together. Our eyes don't work like a video camera. It doesn't capture everything in your line of sight. Our brain chooses what we want to see. Power lines are built to a standard that are away from our normal reach, and our normal every day lives. Once we start working though, it's a different story. We've got ladders, we've got elevated work platforms, we've got fire machinery, cane harvesters, cane haulout vehicles. All these different bits of machineries that can actually touch the power lines.

Cookie:

So, when I got into this safety role, I put myself in the shoes of the workers. Plumbers, builders, painters, farmers. And I quickly realized that people aren't seeing the power lines. Because I'll talk to a farmer, for example say, "So what happened on that day?" And they go, "Cookie, I 100% knew that that power line was there, I just didn't see it." Then I quickly worked out, it was this inattentional blindness and a lack of planning, right?

Cookie:

So you have to have a plan in place to actually see those power lines. Now there's a good new innovation out now, it's called a rotor marker. So if you get a plan in place, you can put these rotor markers on and this dulls the effects of inattentional blindness. It is an administration control, but it is a good control if you absolutely need to be working near that power line.

Cookie:

You really need to plan ahead, right? So I got to a point where I worked out that we've got underground power lines, but a lot of people don't hit the underground power lines, and why is that? Because they use Dial Before You Dig, and they get a plan, because they can't see the power line. When it comes to overhead power lines, most people go, "Well it's overhead, you can see it." And we're relying on people to come on site and actually see that power line, but they don't.

Cookie:

So, we've developed the Look Up and Live app, which is available in the app stores today. I'd like everyone at home to grab their phone right now, go to the app store, or go to the Google Play store and search for Look Up and Live, and download that app. It's a very handy tool. It puts power line safety right at your fingertips. If you have a look at this, you're only a couple of steps away from getting safety advice from Ergon or Energex. Jump straight in.

Cookie:

This is just a quick look at the app. Ergon, Energex, Endeavor Energy, and Powerlink have now got their assets on the map. We're now talking to a few other distributors out there that want to put their information on the app as well. So as you can see, you can just jump in, type an address, or scroll down to where you want to go to. Find your work site. This is just a work site that I picked in Gladstone. You can jump on. You can instantly see that there's power lines bordering this property. So how are we going to deliver the gear? What are we going to do on that property? Who's in charge? Who's going to be the safety observer? What is the exclusion zone around those power lines?

Cookie:

So even just looking at this property from a different angle, you instantly got the start of a small plan and you're less likely to come into contact with a power line already. You can print out the plan, jump in, call it whatever you want, press print. Spits it out as a PDF document. You can now share it with all your workers, sub contractors, and share with everyone what the plan is to work around this power line. A three meter exclusion zone and the use of a safety observer will save you every single time. But, we also want you to eliminate, for example, this one here, if it was going to be a large block of flats, let's talk to Ergon, or Energex and try and get those power lines removed before the construction site even starts. Eliminate the hazard completely. That's about it for me. But, once again, please, get on those app stores and download that app and get yourself a plan. Thanks a lot.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks Cookie. As he mentioned, get yourself a plan. There's the app. The details you've seen on your screen. And we thank you, Cookie, for joining us here this morning. And I note we've already got some questions for you. So you better get ready. Get all your info right. And if you do have a question for Cookie, or for Dan and Ed, who are joining us shortly, or for Mark for that matter, don't forget, submit your questions. Type your full name and question via the chat box to the right of the screen.

Chris Bombolas:

Well, let's take another twist in our presentation this morning, and we're going to talk to the guys from Trademutt, Dan Allen and Ed Ross. Now, it's an Australian workwear brand that aims to make Tradies look and feel great at work. And these two look great this morning, and they've set the whole mood in the studio this morning. And in doing so, by having that feel and that look, it reduces the rate of male suicide. We're talking about things. We don't feel awkward. Dan and Ed founded the Trademutt brand after Dan lost his best mate to suicide back in 2016. The loud and vibrant shirts act as a catalyst to start a conversation, which quite often, for most of us, is a bit prickly to actually begin. So we need a starting point. And maybe this gear will give us that starting point around mental health, particularly in males. Ladies and gentleman, welcome Dan and Ed.

Dan Allen:

Well thanks very much for having us here today guys, we are super happy to be here. So as we were introduced, I'm Dan Allen, and this is Ed Ross, we're the co-founders of Trademutt. Trademutt's a social enterprise workwear company by Tradies for Tradies, and we make funky eye-catching workwear, designed to act as a catalyst to starting conversations about mental health and make that invisible issue impossible to ignore.

Dan Allen:

Now it's important on R U Okay? Day today to preface this by outlining exactly where our position is in the mental health space for trades and the blue collar sector. So we aim to drive the social and cultural shift required to all our blokes, Tradies, blue collar workers, to find it a little bit easier to open up and actually talk about mental health.

Dan Allen:

To set the tone, it's important to give you a bit of a background to the story of how Ed and I met, and how we came to be the founders of Trademutt. Ed and I met on a building site. I was a few years out in my trade, and Ed was a greenhorn, fresh off a stint wrangling cattle in Central West Queensland. And Ed had a healthy appetite for knowledge, or was extremely annoying, as people liked to describe, and I was very patient, so I got lumped with this bloke.

Dan Allen:

We formed a formidable relationship on site, and as we tend to do to get ourselves through our days, we talk a whole lot of nonsense. You know, what would you do if you won the lotto? Or what kind of businesses can we start to maybe get off the tools? We had an idea about creating some funky workwear. We thought there's nothing out there in the market. We thought that we're sick of wearing the same old khaki and high viz to work. We thought, "Come on, let's make a difference here." So we went to Office Works, we bought a pack of pencils and we printed out some paper and we started designing.

Dan Allen:

So what you can see here is probably the next Melbourne Cup winning jockey silks. Of course, you can see the polka dots there on the left, that's a very ground-breaking design that we came up with. But, of course, we're never going to produce such an ugly polka dot shirt. And we made the polka dot shirt. So obviously, we know nothing about building shirts. We can build a house, but we definitely can't build a shirt at this stage. So yeah, that polka dot design was something we just thought, "Well let's see if we can get a shirt made." Ed wore that shirt to work every day for, what, two months?

Ed Ross:

Three months I think.

Dan Allen:

Three months. Washed it every single day. It's covered in Sikaflex, silicone, all sorts of stuff. But we were worried the ink is going to run. So that's where we're at with producing a fashion brand. So fast forward two-and-a-half years, and we've actually implemented some designers and a production team to help us navigate that journey. But a very important message that appears on the top right hand pocket of all our shirts, the letters YMWA.

Dan Allen:

So the reason why we got into the mental health space, obviously, as been mentioned previously, I lost one of my best mates to suicide in 2015. Now it was my first experience with suicide, and something that really changed both of our lives and really highlighted the fact that there was a real lack of understanding around the mental health space in Australia, particularly for blokes, particularly in the blue collar industry.

Dan Allen:

We really wanted to take a bit more of a light hearted approach. Now that YMWA stands for, you'll never walk alone. So my best mate Dan, who took his life, was a die hard Liverpool supporter. And so if you're familiar with English Premier League and Liverpool, that's the song that they sing to their team before every game. It'll put the hairs on the back of your neck standing up. So that's a tribute to Dan, and it's also a message for anyone wearing any of our gear, that you're part of our community, and you will never walk alone. So fast forward two-and-a-half years, and we've got a few cool prints and we've come a long way from the polka dot shirts.

Ed Ross:

Oh, that one.

Dan Allen:

Now so whenever anyone comes onboard with Trademutt, they get that card, which we just skipped past, but it's, you take on a responsibility to show empathy, show vulnerability, and always take a non judgmental approach. Now one thing that we never saw coming when we started this journey, was that we were actually going to be able to empower people to talk about their own mental health.

Dan Allen:

So when we started this thing, the message was simple. I wear this shirt, I send a message to you that I'm okay to talk about anything that you might want to talk about, whether onsite or off site, I don't judge, and I'm always there for you. But this guy here, Carl, a Chippy from New Zealand, really broke ground for us. "Initially, I bought some shirts because I wanted to support the cause, but I found that wearing them has actually helped me too. I generally don't like attention. I'm not a fan of groups of people, and I'd rather hang out quietly in the background and do my own thing. But there's no hiding while rocking one of these bad boys. I can feel the looks when I'm in public on and off site, but I no longer care. I own it, I lift my chin, and I strut. Maybe not that dramatic, but it feels like it to me. I feel my own anxieties fade and I have a new-found confidence in myself and I very much like that." We've managed to partner with a few awesome organizations around Queensland and in Australia. Pictured here with the Hutchies Crew.

Ed Ross:

Oh, clicker. Clicker.

Dan Allen:

And we managed to crack into a few mine sites. Townsville City Council, where serves us down there as well. And that's big Ken Ross, Ed's old boy on the top right hand corner, who's never talked about mental health in his life until now.

Ed Ross:

Right-oh, so this is where I come in. So how does Trademutt take action and make a positive difference? So obviously, as we've spoken about, we've got a large range of funky out-there workwear and products that act as a catalyst to starting conversations about mental health not just once a year, but on a daily basis. Being able to build a brand with a couple of rough melons behind it. So Dan and I have been putting ourselves out there, showing a lot of vulnerability and trying to set a really good example for everyone out there that it's okay to speak up, talk to your mate, and seek help when needed.

Ed Ross:

Got a really large digital footprint at the moment, so we've been able to expand across our Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and with our podcasting as well. So we started Trademutt's 120 podcast, the podcast for the working class. We've had a wide variety of guests on there. Guys like Greg Martin, Darren Lockyer, David Shillington. We had John Millman on there the other day. J.C. from Powderfinger. Them all talking about their life experience and stuff that they've been through, resilience and how they've overcome some major hurdles in their life, and how mental health doesn't discriminate.

Ed Ross:

We've got Trademutt Toolbox Talk. So much like this, except not quite the production level. On the last Tuesday of every month, we get an industry professional to come in and speak about their field. Last month we had Lachie Stewart from the Man that Can Project, talking about the eight fundamentals that all men must master. Vertical integration with aligned projects. So, being a social enterprise ourselves, we've worked with social enterprise and non for profit manufacturing over in Cambodia to make our hoodies for this winter with the SHE Rescue Home. We're also working with SendAble, which is a third party logistics company, which warehouse and dispatch all of our products and orders every day. And they're people that work with Multicap with intellectual disability. So it's really rewarding for us to be able to make an impact through our supply chain.

Ed Ross:

And then, 5% of all our profits go into our non for profit foundation called This Is A Conversation Starter, which is... So Trademutt's 120 podcast. So you can see this on YouTube or on any podcast app. So you can see there, we've had a wide variety of guests. Sam Gardel is a good mate of ours who is a electrical business owner here in Brisbane, and he talks about his journey of starting his own business, running into some financial trouble, and then rebuilding himself, and seeking help and how that's made such a massive difference to he and his life. Here's a short clip of Matty Boise. He's a carpenter here in Brissy, and also a good mate of Gardie's and we had him on the podcast.

Matty:

How many other people just need to sit next to their mate and just go, "Hey look, I'm struggling." And then him or her to go back, "Yeah, me too." And then there's that connection, and then there's that authentic human connection where you can share your stories. That's pretty much where it was born from.

Ed Ross:

It's an interesting story, because I remember the planning apprentice, when he first reached out to us two years ago.

Dan Allen:

Jimmy?

Ed Ross:

Jimmy.

Dan Allen:

I don't think he listens.

Ed Ross:

He'd be surely listening. Jimmy, he messaged us. It's the first time he ever reached out to us. He was at TAFE on the North side, and it was smoko time or something and he's gone outside and there was a guy wearing a Trademutt shirt, and he sat down and started having a smoko with him and couple of other guys sat down and they were talking. And they basically just laid it all out that they were all struggling, they were all going through different shit, but they're all in the trenches together. And that's always stuck with me, because he was like, "No one there was trying to solve each other's problems. We were just all there knowing that we're all fucking in this together." You know what I mean?

Ed Ross:

Yeah, Trademutt Toolbox Talks. So as we were saying, at the last Tuesday of every month we get industry professionals to come on and talk to our audience. It's completely free, and you can come on and see professionals in their field talk about different areas of mental health and mental well-being, and how we can make improvements in our lives. Here's the SHE Rescue Home, as we were saying, made our hoodies this year. And then we're also been working with the Work Restart Program, which is people that are incarcerated currently, but are getting some really essential skills for live outside of prison. So they've been making some products for us as well, so boot covers and our grill skirts, barbecue aprons.

Dan Allen:

So TIACS is our charity that we've also founded off the success of Trademutt. So being able to sell some shirts has also been able to allow us to form and establish our own charity, and really complete the circle of what we consider to be our full circle approach to mental health. So as I said, Trademutt is driving the social and cultural shift around talking about mental health, but what happens when you might strike up a conversation with someone who goes a little deeper and maybe you're not sure how to help them, but you know they need to be referred onto somewhere else. Well, that's where TIACS comes in.

Dan Allen:

So whether you're a Tradie, a Truckie, or blue collar worker, don't let it get any harder. Text or call This Is A Conversation Starter. You can see the number up there on the screen. So TIACS removes the physical and financial barriers that exist preventing Tradies, Truckies and blue collar workers from being able to access professional mental health support. And we know what it's like, when we were a Tradie, we spent up to 10, 12 hours a day on site, and there might be very little time to actually go and make an appointment with the GP, get onto a mental health plan, and then go and make an appointment with a psychologist and actually get some of that help you need.

Dan Allen:

We're removing those barriers, we want to make it as easy as possible. You can text, you can call. You can call as many times as you want. We also practice outbound, so we will, the TIACS Foundation will also check back in with anyone who reaches out. You can use it on the dunny, you can use it at smoko, you can use it in bed at night. It's very easy guys, and we'd encourage anyone to reach out and practice that help seeking behaviour.

Dan Allen:

This is a bit of an old picture to be honest, when we say we've built this whole organization from the ground up. This is our warehouse out of Morningside. Podcast room down the bottom, and we've just added a level at the top there, on top of that second story there, which is housing our psychologists. So we've got a big task ahead of us and through shirt sales, Trademutt currently funds two full-time psychologists to be able to provide free support for anyone who needs it. So we're currently unfunded by the government, but we could use all the support that we can get.

Ed Ross:

What's this one? This is a new one.

Dan Allen:

Skip through it.

Ed Ross:

Right guys, just to finalize obviously, it's R U Okay Day today, and obviously there's a massive groundswell around mental health on a day like today. We need to remember it's important to look after your mental health every day. So if you or anyone you know wants to access private sector mental health professional, please reach out to the TIACS Foundation and get the help you deserve. And you can also see more at tiacs.org.

Dan Allen:

One key take away guys is, as Ed said, on R U Okay? Day, a lot of statistics around mental health and a lot of them can look very scary. There's one statistic that really does matter, and it's that 100% of us actually do have mental health, just as we have nutritional and physical health. Nothing to be afraid of, and it's something that we all need to embrace and talk about more. So to reach out, our website details are there. And thank you very much for the time today guys.

Ed Ross:

Cheers.

Chris Bombolas:

Thanks very much guys. On a serious note, if you, or a friend, or a colleague, or a work mate is struggling, then here are some key contacts that will come in handy for professional help. We heard from Matt Rogers a couple of days ago just how important professional help is when problems are identified. We are not all problem solvers and we are not professionals, and there's a few organizations that do a fantastic job, particularly in the mental health space.

Chris Bombolas:

If you've got a question of Dan and Ed, or of Cookie, or of Mark from earlier, we're about to open the panel session and all you have to do is submit your question. I've got one for you two guys to consider, while you're catching your breath and we're getting ready for our panel session. Having seen the gear that you've got, the workwear and how colourful it is, and it's out there, and a conversation starter. I want to know, particularly with my boss sitting in the audience over there, whether you'd consider branching off maybe into casual wear, weekend casual sporting wear. It's very popular with the young kids these days. And for me personally, I'd like to have some gear like that to wear into the corporate office. What do you reckon?

Dan Allen:

Are you saying you want to look like that?

Chris Bombolas:

Oh, I don't know if I could get away with thongs? I don't know if we can pan that camera down, but part of their work gear, and let's have a look, down there, it's shorts. They look like New South Wales shorts. I'm a bit worried about that, but there's a new corporate look.

Ed Ross:

Yeah mate, you can't take yourself too seriously. We've got a range of products coming out. We've actually got Australian-made and Australia cotton T-shirts coming out in the next couple of weeks that's really exciting. So it's cotton from St. George, and been made in Brissy. So it's really good.

Chris Bombolas:

Particularly at this time, it's really important to support local industry, isn't it?

Ed Ross:

Absolutely.

Chris Bombolas:

And all our producers and local manufacturers.

Ed Ross:

Exactly.

Dan Allen:

Do what we can where we can.

Ed Ross:

And we've got some hoodies and stuff as well, so plenty of stuff coming.

Chris Bombolas:

And thank you for our vouchers. And don't forget all the people who ask a question today go into the draw. We've got five vouchers, a 100 bucks each. And get some good gear for that, can't they?

Ed Ross:

Get in there. Get in there.

Chris Bombolas:

Time now for the panel session. I better bring this back into order. Some sort of order. It's hard with those two, I've got to tell you. The two to my right are much more...

Mark:

Professional.

Chris Bombolas:

Sedate and professional. And then I go over here to the two amateurs. So anyway, lets get into the panel session. Thanks for your questions. Keep asking them. We'll try to get through as many as we can. Mark, you're first up. I see you're nice and relaxed. This comes from Kylie. How do you gauge if someone has what it takes to be a good trades person? And are there certain qualities you look for in an apprentice?

Mark:

I think that's an easy one to be honest. It's all about attitude. To be honest, mate, I've worked with some apprentices or trade assistants that weren't the best, they weren't the most skilled. They weren't the smartest, they weren't the fastest, but who had a great attitude. And I mean, attitude will get you a lot further sometimes than brain smart. So one thing I've always looked is for, if they've got to have a great attitude towards learning and wanting to know stuff, and being keen, then, yeah. So I'll always look for the right attitude more than strength, or fastness or that. Attitude's number one.

Chris Bombolas:

So the attitude can then help with their ability, and they can learn if they [crosstalk 00:48:46].

Mark:

Yeah, if you've got a great attitude, you can be moulded in a great tradesman with the correct training. Yeah, definitely.

Chris Bombolas:

Thank you. That was for you, Kylie. Now to the Trademutt boys, this comes from Nev, Nev Atkinson. Would you consider making arc-related clothes?

Ed Ross:

All our work shirts currently are 100% cotton. So they should be all good to go. I don't think we've got the arc-

Dan Allen:

We don't have the accreditation.

Ed Ross:

... accreditation but yeah, they are a 100% cotton.

Chris Bombolas:

Cool. Right. We're already there? Excellent.

Dan Allen:

If the demand is there, then definitely, as we expand. We're just a growing business, so we're just trying to keep up with demand currently as it is, but most definitely in the future it'd be great to produce both FR and arc-related clothing and get all the Sparkies on board.

Chris Bombolas:

Well, after today's broad reaching podcast and our webinar today, that little place in Morningside might need a bit of work.

Dan Allen:

It needs a bit of work anyway.

Chris Bombolas:

Let's move onto our next question. This comes from Elsa, and it's to you, Mark, again. What's your advice to apprentices who feel like they've been asked to do something that is not right, but they don't have the confidence to speak. They're not sure. They really have a gut feel that they shouldn't be doing it, but they're being coerced to do it.

Mark:

I can understand that may be hard if you're maybe 18 years old and your boss is some old tough Tradie. My advice would be speak to them, but if you can't do that, you're a bit worried, speak to some of your other colleagues. Speak to the other people you work with. And if that doesn't work, speak to me and I'll speak to your boss. That's not a problem. But no, I understand they might be a bit worried, "Oh, the boss pays my wages," but-

Chris Bombolas:

Nothing like a ferocious Scotsman confronting a boss.

Mark:

... Yeah, just give me a shout man, and I'll go see your boss man. But don't be scared to speak up, because nobody should be asking you to do something you don't feel comfortable doing. But speak to your other colleagues, or speak to someone else that can help you out, or speak to me. But don't be afraid to speak out, and don't be afraid to ask the wrong questions or that, but just try and get that confidence to speak the truth.

Chris Bombolas:

Excellent, now what we can get you to do is then wear the Trademutt gear, go out to the work site, and encourage that person to do the right thing.

Mark:

Yeah.

Chris Bombolas:

Excellent. Right, we've got it all wrapped up in one. Let's move to question from Jake and this one is aimed at you, Cookie. So your turn my friend. What's your advice for those wanting to stay in the electrical industry for a lifelong career, and what kind of training and development opportunities would you recommend for someone who's starting out and wants to make it a life long career? You've had 30 years plus.

Cookie:

I suppose the first thing is to find something you're really passionate about. I obviously really enjoyed being an electrician, but like Mark said, you got to have a good attitude, and you got to want to learn. You really can't wait for someone to give you those opportunities. You need to go, find that thing you're passionate about, do some training in it. I was lucky enough to get into some management type roles and had very good mentors. So you got to find someone that's got the knowledge that's willing to give it to you, right? And then I did a bit of a management type diploma, but I also got into training as well. So training helps me do these presentations that I've got to do a lot. So just depends on where you think your career path is going, but you got to find something you're really passionate about.

Chris Bombolas:

Just a follow-up question on that. I'll put my old journo hat on. A young Sparkie, you got the apprentice, and they've got to go tech, got to go to TAFE, do their paperwork and all that sort of stuff. And they quite often don't really want to go there, or they think, "Oh, it's a bit of time off work." How important is that in their career overall? And either of you could answer that one. Some of them have the attitude of, "Oh, a couple of hours off. I'll just attend here and I'll tick off the boxes and do my little paperwork."

Mark:

Oh, I think the theory side of going to tech's massive. If you want a full career in being a Sparkie, there's so many different industries within the electrical industry, and having the knowledge or the theory behind how electrics work's massive. Because you've got a lot of guys that [inaudible 00:53:14] the best on the tools with their hands, but they're really book smart, and you've got the opposite. So if you can work together and lean off each other, you'll be a good Sparkie.

Chris Bombolas:

Cookie?

Cookie:

Never be afraid to ask a question. No one knows everything. You have to ask. Someone might assume that you know something when you get to the first day of your... into your apprenticeship, first day of your trade and all of a sudden you're expected to know everything? Well, you don't. You need to ask questions and gain knowledge. Like I said, find a good mentor.

Chris Bombolas:

And you blokes have been in the industry a long time. Do you constantly update your skills? So do you read through trade magazines or update, go on courses, do whatever needs to be done?

Mark:

We do CPD points, definitely. Yeah, we have to in certain sub industries in it. But I prefer learning off old people to be honest. I've got a lot of older engineers that work with us and I'm always asking them like, "Well, you told me how that works, but explain to me exactly how it works." Do you know what I mean? So I would always ask the older guys. And what I've always said to the younger apprentices is like, "See when you got your driving license and you're driving cars. That's you just learning to drive. You know how to drive, but you've not been on the road with a thousand other cars there." It's the same as being a Sparkie. As soon as you get that little green card, then you're just starting your career as a Sparkie, so you're always learning.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, let's move onto our next question. It comes from Alicia Kitty, it's for the boys from Trademutt. When will your hoodies be back in stock? Is this not one of your...?

Ed Ross:

They arrived on Monday. I don't know why they aren't on the website yet. I'll be having a stern word with our eCommerce manager when I get back in the office. No, I'm joking.

Dan Allen:

We're supposed to be talking about mental health, not hoodies, Alicia.

Ed Ross:

Yeah, no, there should be some on the website, hopefully today or tomorrow.

Chris Bombolas:

Oh, clearly an in-house one this one, was it?

Ed Ross:

I don't know who's done that.

Dan Allen:

Someone's going to get a grilling when we get back to the warehouse.

Chris Bombolas:

They better start sweeping and tidying up the Morningside head office, all right? Let's go to Dan and Ed, we'll stay down this end. Comes from Kev. What's been your biggest achievement since starting Trademutt?

Dan Allen:

That's a really hard question to answer, Kev. But thank you. Since we've started this journey, we've gone from being two Chippies, with a combined 15 years experience on the tools, and we learned a lot of manual labour skills, and how to work as part of a team and all that sort of stuff. Never did we think we would be able to take those skills and transfer them and to become a couple social entrepreneurs who're also founders of a mental health charity.

Dan Allen:

So the whole journey to this point has been absolutely incredible. Every day we shake ourselves and think, "How are we in this position?" But we know that this is exactly where we're supposed to be. Getting a high viz shirt here was a massive thing for us. To be able to build a team, now we've got a team of about 14 across both Trademutt and the TIACS Foundation. Establishing our podcast. But even as simple as having some of the conversations that we have with people on a daily basis, and how much Trademutt has positively impacted our lives. It's absolutely priceless and we're super grateful to be in this position, and we know that we're only just at the start of a long journey ahead. So it's a really rewarding one.

Chris Bombolas:

To the guys in the colourful gear, this one's from Amusta Faziyah. Does Trademutt have a plan to approach local government councils?

Dan Allen:

So as I said in our presentation, Trademutt's actually currently unfunded by government. We've got a few shirts in the Brisbane City Council at the moment. But basically, all we can do is keep driving this ship forward, make as much noise as we can and wait for the councils to come to us at this stage, because you can spend a lot of time banging down doors, trying to get into government departments, but at the end of the day we just got to keep driving this bad boy and hopefully they come and find us.

Chris Bombolas:

You get that corporate gear that I'm talking about, and they'll be knocking your doors down.

Dan Allen:

Well, we'll be ready.

Chris Bombolas:

To Mark, let's get back over to the other side. Comes from Julie. How has this accident shaped the way you feel, or you deal with client pressure?

Mark:

It's more, you just need to be confident. So I've managing it from the point of sale now. So, addressing with the larger clients that power needs to go off at some point and maybe multiple times, not just for final connections of equipment, but we may need to be turning power off for assessments. So that was one thing that you see with the video that we had a bit of client pressure not to turn the power off. So address basically at the point of sale with the BDMs right away. Obviously, if this is going to go ahead then power's going to need to go off. It may need to go off at multiple times as well as for data logging. So we've addressed that right at the start and it's black and white now. There's no-

Chris Bombolas:

So, no compromise for you. If that client is not prepared to turn the power off, you're not prepared to do the work.

Mark:

... If that client doesn't want to turn the power off, I don't want him as a client, basically.

Chris Bombolas:

And you express that each and every job.

Mark:

Yes, more so now than ever. Before it was trying to be about accommodating. Like we all are, as humans, we want to accommodate everybody, we want to try and keep everyone happy. But sometimes we just need to take that stance and say, "Look, mate. The power's going off, man. If you want to get a backup generator in, if you want to get UPS or that in, yeah, we can organize that. But it needs to get it done safely."

Chris Bombolas:

Have you had any blow back about that stance.

Mark:

No, you can't. Once you're firm with it, and you explain to them it's safety, and you don't... It's like you let them know that it's not flexible, it's like, "This is the way it needs to be and if you want somebody else to do it without doing that, then on you go, mate." So you just need to be firm with them and stand by it.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, back to the Trademutt boys from Nate Kirmer. How is the five percent of profit spent by the charity to help tackle mental health?

Ed Ross:

So actually, last financial year, we donated 25% of our profits, which was awesome. And basically, it's all spent on getting psychologists on the phone. So the TIACS Foundation doesn't do any marketing or any paid advertising like that. It's all literally just for our psychologists and for our CEO to be able to run it. So that's how it's spent, having psychologists on the phone currently from 9:00 to 5:00, Monday to Friday.

Dan Allen:

We're currently funding two full-time psychologists just through shirt sales, and that's free to access for anyone who needs it.

Chris Bombolas:

So they just dial a number and...

Dan Allen:

Dial up, yeah. Text, call. You can have a short consult. You can have a longer one. You can come back and back as many times as you need.

Chris Bombolas:

All discreet like all those other-

Dan Allen:

Yeah, everything, yeah, but it's just basically removing all those steps, all those barriers that it might take otherwise for someone to actually get to a psychologist, which for Tradies who work the hours that we do, can be really tough to do. So we want to make it as easy as possible.

Chris Bombolas:

... Because if they've got enough courage to make that call, sometimes we're just a bit hesitant about actually coming up with details and all that sort of stuff. So you've made that initial approach, so here's a great avenue to continue the conversation.

Dan Allen:

Exactly. We know how many blokes actually struggle with help seeking behaviour, and so it's really important for us to desensitize that and make it as easy and chilled out as possible to really make that first interaction with a mental health professional a really positive one. So that's our focus.

Chris Bombolas:

So basically, another question from Donna, and we say thanks to Donna for her question. What's your advice to Tradies that can see a mate struggling and how should they reach out? This is a very common question. We've done these for the construction industry, for many other industries where we've got beefy, burly guys who don't show emotion, and all of a sudden you notice that someone's struggling. How should they reach out? How do we start? How do we progress it?

Dan Allen:

I think it's a really fine line. It's actually quite a balancing act to not be too forceful when it comes to this mental health stuff. If you can see someone who's struggling, you want to help lead that horse to water, as we say, but you can't actually force that person to reach out and seek the help that they need. So in those instances, all we can do is put as many resources around that person as we can, inform the right people. If you're worried about that person, maybe have a yarn with the boss. Let them know that the TIACS text line is by Tradies for Tradies. So it's very non confrontational, quite easy to use.

Dan Allen:

But otherwise, making yourself aware of the services that are out there. And one of the biggest things is, if you do see someone that's struggling, you want to be able to show vulnerability yourself. One of the best ways to allow someone else to open up and actually address the fact that they might be doing it tough, is to talk about some of your own struggles. There's nothing like just coming in hard out of the gate and saying, "Mate, what's wrong?" It's never going to work. You got to chill it out. Maybe take it to the pub, have a beer and just shoot the breeze like mates. Build that connection, build that relationship, and that's how we really cut through.

Chris Bombolas:

Over to you, Mark, for our next question. It comes from Harrison. After your accident, was it difficult to return to the workplace? Especially working on switchboards, considering how horrific your own personal story was.

Mark:

I think we're getting a lot of questions this morning. It must be those Trademutt vouchers that they'll get. I think there was a little bit of hesitance going back. Initially, reopening switchboards and being around electricity. But it's just something that I've mentally dealt with. There was a little bit of hesitancy. It's a common question a lot of mates, as well as colleagues have asked me. To be honest, as long as you're switching the power off, you've nothing to be scared of, do you know what I mean? But it's more just when you still need to prove that the power's off. There is that slight, when you need to prove if it's dead, it may not be dead. I think I struggled a little bit initially, but since nothing is holding me back. So it was a little bit of a struggle, I'm not going to lie, but it is since something that's just, so I just walked through it.

Chris Bombolas:

All right. We thank Terry for his question, and this one's aimed at Cookie and yourself, Mark. And it's your top tips for supervisors managing apprentices today is all about apprentices and their supervisors, and we thank them for joining us today. Some top tips. Something that they really should adhere to.

Cookie:

Well, I think empathy. You got to empathize with that apprentice. We've been apprentices as well, so put yourself back in those shoes and go, "What would I want my supervisor to do for me?" Give him a bit of time to learn. Give him that little bit of extra time. If it's a rush job, it's probably not the job for the apprentice. But just empathy, and don't forget to ask questions. Nobody knows everything, I mentioned it before.

Mark:

I second everything Cookie's just said there. It's time, spending time with the apprentice and understanding where they are in their life. When they're an 18-year-old kid, they're going to go out and get on the drink. Do you know what I mean? They're going to turn up late. Do you know what I mean? It's like don't... Oh, I nearly swore there. But you don't really want to come down hard on them, because they're young boys, they're going to mess up. Do you know what I mean? They're going to maybe crash the work van, they're going to make mistakes.

Mark:

But just put yourself in their shoes and be firm with them when you have to be. If they keep messing something up like, "Well, why are you not understanding us?" Like, "What is it that you're not getting." Spending the extra time with them and just don't give up on them because they broke your new Milwaukee drill or something. That's just part of having an apprentice, do you know what I mean? It's part of learning for them. So just spend that time and empathize with them and just respect them as well, being young boys.

Chris Bombolas:

Respect them. Be understanding. Probably a bit of flexibility. And I reckon you two will agree with this, communication is important. Always communicate with them. I don't know how many times I've heard apprentices say, "Oh you know, my boss just goes off, does something else. I don't see him the whole day." How about a bit of a conversation during the day? See if they're all right, see if they're coping, and regular.

Mark:

Yes, definitely.

Cookie:

Yeah, supervision. I mean you got to be there to advise them, to lead them.

Chris Bombolas:

All right. We have to wrap up our panel session, but look, I wanted to pose a question to all of you, just to have a think about this particular issue. We are here specifically for supervisors and apprentices. What's one piece of advice, and we'll go around the circle, that you would give to apprentices starting out in the electrical industry? You guys more from a working point of view, and a general work site. You guys specifically from maybe an electrical industry point of view. So Mark, you first.

Mark:

I'll give one initial bit of advice, don't buy cheap tools, okay?

Chris Bombolas:

Or work gear.

Mark:

Yeah, the boss should be buying you that. That should all come free. But not thongs, but okay, sorry. I don't think we'll get past WHS guys. But, no, seriously just ask questions, learn. Do you know what I mean? To be a good Sparkie you don't need to be good at everything, but if you've got a good knowledge base you can turn your hand to a lot of things. Just enjoy it though. Do you know what I mean? You're going to do this for 10 hours a day or longer at times. So just have fun and enjoy it and don't put up with any shit, do you know what I mean?

Chris Bombolas:

Despite what happened to you, are you still enjoying your trade? And B, do you have regrets?

Mark:

I'm a Sparkie man, through and through. I've been off the tools for a few years, but I still have my most satisfying days when I put the boots and that on and go and spend a day on site with the boys. You'll never beat that Tradie banter. I don't know what it's like, but I do know what it's like in offices, and I'll tell you one thing, the banter on site is a lot better. And another bit of advice would be is, you need to be able to take it if you're given it on site, man. Don't be shy if you're getting a little bit of banter, if you're getting the piss taken out of you, because it's all part of being an apprentice man, and you'll be able to do it to someone else after.

Chris Bombolas:

We don't officially no. We're not going, no, no, no.

Mark:

But enjoy it. You've got to enjoy it, don't you?

Chris Bombolas:

Cookie.

Cookie:

I was starting, thinking through my head, and he mentioned everything I was going to say. But I think the big thing is asking those questions, because when I was an apprentice, I thought that I was expected to know stuff. And you learn it through your trade, but I should've asked more questions. Find out from someone that knows. Find yourself a really good mentor, and that doesn't necessarily need to be your boss. If you know someone else is a good electrician or anything like that. I was lucky to have very good mentors.

Chris Bombolas:

When you're saying questions, it should be from either end. It should be from the apprentice to the supervisor, and even the supervisor back to the apprentice.

Mark:

What I've done in the past is that I initiate a question, but instead of telling them the answer, I was like, "Work it out." Like, "Do you understand why we're doing this? Do you understand what insulation resistant is? Do you understand why we want a high megohm reading? Do you understand the physics behind it? Not just, "Oh, great, 500 megohm." But do you know what that is measuring?" If they just say, "Yeah, yeah, I get it." Explain it to them.

Cookie:

I think one more thing too is, the electrical industry is so vast, right? You can go in so many different angles. Find out the one that you like the most, and push your career in that angle.

Chris Bombolas:

Great advice. You guys from a Tradie point of view, rather than specifically just the electrical industry. Some advice for those starting out, other than get your boss to buy Trademutt gear, right?

Ed Ross:

I suppose obviously asking heaps of questions was one thing I did as an apprentice. But I think the most important thing, if it's not for you, don't grit your teeth and push yourself through it, if it's not what you want to do. I mean, Dan and I are two Chippies by trade and now we don't do anything on the tools. I mean, we're on a laptop, on a phone, and Dan's on Instagram for about six hours of every day now. So don't think you've got to commit yourself to something that you don't enjoy. I mean, if it's for you, that's fantastic. If it's not, there's so many more opportunities out there. So don't put yourself through something you're not enjoying.

Dan Allen:

And I'd probably jump in and say, for a long time trades have been looked upon as a second rate career, I suppose. But I can guarantee you that there's literally no better career pathway for anyone to learn all the skills required to be successful in any industry that they try their hand at. Becoming a Tradie allows you to learn working as part of a team, you learn practical skills. You get to see a job from start to finish, and you get to partake in all the processes that are involved to make that happen and bring that to life. So these skills are absolutely invaluable and can set you up to either excel in your trade and take it as far as you want to go, or it can give you the grounding to try your hand at absolutely anything that you want to do from that point.

Dan Allen:

The skills that you learn as a Tradie are so valuable, and that work ethic is something that a lot of other people miss out on, particularly at a young age. So if you're a young apprentice, understand that you've got an opportunity to really hone in on some practical life skills that can be applied anywhere. And who knows, you might even try your hand at starting a charity, or becoming a social entrepreneur, or absolutely anything else related to the trade industry. So it's a very exiting opportunity. Make the most of it.

Chris Bombolas:

Olivia has snuck one final question in for all of you, so we'll be brief with this one, but it's a good one. I like it. Are you guys seeing more and more women starting out in the electrical and construction trades? Like in the trades industry, broadly speaking.

Dan Allen:

In our little world there's fantastic representation of females in the trade workforce. So it's awesome to see a lot of the strong, confident and very highly qualified women who are excelling in the trade. So there are no limiting factors to being able to become a Tradie now, and it's awesome to see how many women are taking up a trade and really excelling and having really good support networks around them to empower them to keep going. Because it can be tough, as Mark mentioned. We come from work sites so there's a lot of banter. It's been a culture that we've set for a long time. But it's shifting. We're becoming more open about our mental health. We're becoming far more accepting of having women around us who are just as good as everyone else. And so that's fantastic to see.

Chris Bombolas:

And they are a little less brutal on the work van. They don't drive them as hard as the blokes. Seriously.

Dan Allen:

That's true. Actually, we get a lot of feedback from the females on site are actually the ones who a lot of guys go up to, to talk to. So when we're talking about this mental health stuff, we get lots of feedback, particularly from the women on site. They say that a lot of guys feel like they're more approachable to talk about some of the stuff that they're struggling with. So that's a huge added bonus for a lot of sites out there.

Chris Bombolas:

For you guys in the electrical industry, just to bring us home, Mark and Cookie.

Mark:

I've actually worked with female electricians nearly with every company I've worked with. Not especially within the company, but on the same building sites. Not a lot of them, but there's been one dotted here and there. And they've been capable of doing the work. Especially being a Sparkie, it's not as hardcore as a Brickie and all that, muscle wise and strength wise. I've came across a few of them, man. They've been decent tradespeople, would it be? It can't be tradesmen, is it? Trades person? I just want to get my PC right.

Ed Ross:

Tradies.

Mark:

Yeah, Tradie, yeah. But yeah, you see them.

Cookie:

Obviously, short and sweet, but, yes. Basically, I do a lot of trades from road transport, construction and obviously, agriculture and I'm seeing an increase in female representation. Particularly in safety as well.

Chris Bombolas:

All right, we might wrap it up there. Thanks everybody for joining us for our very special presentation today. Winners of today's Trademutt vouchers will be announced on Wednesday the 16th of September via the Electrical Safety Office Facebook page. As we've said all morning, there's five $100 Trade vouchers up for grabs on that Facebook page for all of those who have taken part. After this week we'll post a question for electrical workers. Answer the question correctly, and you'll be in that draw for those vouchers. I would encourage all of you who joined us today to head to the electricalsafety.qld.gov.au to watch the webinar again, along with a wide range of other electrical safety information and resources. Share it with your friends, with your work colleagues, with those in the industry. We'd really appreciate that.

Chris Bombolas:

We will be emailing all of you a feedback survey very, very shortly. We really value your feedback. It helps us shape events like this, particularly now that a lot of our events have gone digital and they're in a whole new world. We would appreciate your feedback, whether you like something, you want more of, less of, whatever it might be, and we use those to formulate events in the future.

Chris Bombolas:

Can I say, on behalf of the Office of Industrial Relations and the Electrical Safety Office, thanks to our guests today. To Dan and Ed from Trademutt, thanks for the vouchers. Thanks for your support. Keep up the great work, and I hope to see this huge factory soon, or business outlet in Morningside with a café out the front that we can come and have a café and perhaps open difficult discussions that we've struggled with in the past.

Ed Ross:

A 100%.

Dan Allen:

Seems like a great idea.

Chris Bombolas:

Seems like a great idea. Well, get to work on that. And to Glen Cook, and Mark. Thank you for joining us. Some great insight into what is a wonderful industry.

Cookie:

Thank you.

Chris Bombolas:

And to you, for joining us. I hope you enjoyed our ESO presentations. Not just today, but from the last couple of days. We've certainly had great pleasure in presenting them to you and we hope that you've taken a lot in, and taken a lot back to your workplace. But for today, which is R U Okay? Day, and World Suicide Day, be brave enough to ask a mate, a friend, a family member, a colleague, anyone, "What's happening in your world?" It could save someone's life. Till next time we meet, stay safe.

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