Electrical safety summit 2025

Belinda: Good morning everyone. Thanks for your attention, and good morning and welcome to the 2025 Electrical Safety Summit. I'm Belinda Watton. I'm the executive with the Energy Queensland Group, and I lead a business called Eureka. We, uh, work in the energy supplies, telco, metering, and energy and infrastructure areas. Firstly, I respectfully acknowledge the First Nations people in the state of Queensland. We acknowledge the cultural and spiritual connection that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have with the land and sea we respect. We respectfully acknowledge people, Aboriginal people, and Torres Strait Islander people as two unique and diverse peoples with their own rich and distinct cultures. A little bit of housekeeping for those in the room. If you are new to the um, day, there are bathrooms at the back of the room out past the bar on your left. It's great to see so many familiar faces in the case of an emergency, uh, or fire. Please follow instructions from the Victoria Park staff or our online viewers today. Welcome, uh, if you have any technical problems during the live stream, please make sure, firstly that the sound on your computer is on, try refreshing your browser. If that doesn't work, contact us via the and a chat box on the right of your screen or email the events team atevents@o.qd.gov au. Can you believe it is the ninth Electrical Safety Summit, which is quite incredible. Thank you all for being here. Whether you're with us in the room or you're turning up online, it's absolutely fantastic to have you here today. Uh, today's summit will focus on stakeholder and community engagement, compliance, and setting young workers up for success. Uh, I'd like to acknowledge the Honorable Deb Frecklington MP, attorney General and Minister for Justice, and, uh, minister for Integrity, Keith McKenzie, Commissioner for Electrical Safety. Donna Healon, Acting Deputy Director General Office of Industrial Relations, Robert Wicks, acting Executive Director, Electrical Safety Office, Electrical safety Board and committee and licensed members, and our guest speakers, Anna Blundell, Donna Pickford, and Scott Sinclair. And now to kick us all off for this morning, I'd love to introduce Attorney General Deb Ton for the opening address for this year's Electrical Safety summit.

Hon Deb Frecklington: Thank you. Thank you. Well, good morning everyone. Welcome to Victoria Park. What a great spot for a stadium. Um, or is it too soon for me to say that, uh, I figured if the Deputy Premier was here today, he would probably make such a joke. But anyhow, uh, ladies and gentlemen, I'm here on behalf of the Deputy Premier and the Minister for Industrial Relations. Uh, as you've just heard, of course, I'm the Attorney General, so slightly different. Um, but we have a great deal of crossover, uh, particularly when it comes to, uh, any form of safety. Uh, and I'm, I'm discovering, uh, that when they want something done, they give it to the busiest person in the room. So that's me. Uh, so there you go. So that's why I'm here today. So it's just wonderful to be here. The Deputy Premier sends his apologies. Uh, he unfortunately was unable to come and, uh, and to greet you here today, so apologies. But you have me, uh, I'm sure if you come back next year, he'll do it and he'll do a much better job. Uh, but to obviously, first of all, I do really just want to, um, acknowledge all of the staff at the Office of Industrial Relations who've put together this incredible event this morning, uh, and accumulating over two weeks. There will be events not only here, but of course live streamed across the state. And it's a wonderful way to engage each and every aspect and part, uh, of this very vital, important industry. Uh, can I please acknowledge, um, everyone that has been acknowledged, but of course, uh, the Commissioner for Electrical Safety, Keith McKenzie. And I know that he's, um, quite keen to have a chat to me about copper theft, uh, something that is very topical, um, and something that is at top of mind across not only, you know, all communities, but particularly like in my patch, having complaints from local sporting clubs, uh, for example, um, with basically idiots flogging copper, um, and putting themselves at risk. Uh, and that's where your industry steps in, uh, and does everything, um, so well. So thank you for that. Um, of course. And to Donna, um, hel it's great to see you here today. Um, Belinda Watton, general Manager, thank you. Uh, and to each and every one of you that, um, should be acknowledged, um, please consider yourself acknowledged. Queensland really is at a, at a pre when it comes to construction across this great state. And for that, we need leaders in the industry, and that's exactly who we have in the room here today. We need leaders in the industry to bring up that next generation. Uh, so whether you are from one of the big goss, whether you're union, whether you're from the government, or whether you're from private enterprise, there is nothing more important to the government than safety. And of course, to be here at the Electrical Safety Summit, uh, that just leads directly into that. So you have this incredible opportunity over the next several years to really assist us in the construction boom that is and will be happening here in Queensland. And of course, I'm talking about the, uh, not just the Olympic Legacy projects, uh, and right here, I've already made the joke about the stadium. Um, but there's so many other projects that will be coming on, uh, because of those Olympic legacy projects, but not, not only that, across the board and across government, we're seeing huge numbers of projects, uh, whether they are government projects or private industry, uh, working towards building Queensland. Uh, and that's exactly like I say, where you come in, but we can't do it as a government without your help. Uh, we need you as leaders of the industry to continue to do what it is you do best. And that is to keep us all safe, uh, but importantly to, to train up the next gen as well. So those apprentices that are coming through, we need more of them. Uh, we also need industry to really lead into the fact, uh, that we need to encourage more people into the electrical industry. It is a vital industry and one that we obviously can't live without. Uh, as soon as the lights go off or someone's, they get home and their beer fridge is cold, uh, hot, uh, it's a,it's a terrible day. So I mean, that's, you know, we take this issue of electrical safety as a government extremely seriously. Uh, but as a government, we can't do it, uh, without you, uh, and without ensuring that everyone is doing the right thing. So I just really do, um, wanted to take that time to thank you for what it is you're doing. Um, thank you for coming to the start of a two week conference or two weeks of electrical safety weeks. Most other industries only have one. So Donna, that shows how important yours is. Uh, you do it over two weeks, but thank you for that. Also, appreciate for any of you that have contacts in and around regional Queensland and outside of the Southeast, please contact them, get them in involved, and, um, encourage them, uh,to find the contacts within your industry and within government. Uh, because we are a government, not just for Southeast Queensland, but for all of Queensland. Uh, and I'm, uh, for those of you who don't know, I'm actually a regional member of Parliament. I've been a regional member of Parliament the entire time. Uh, I've been in government. And it is very important, uh, to our government that we actually govern for all of Queensland. And when we talk about, you know, the safety of Queensland is that is actually, um, usually starts in rural and regional Queensland. So it is important that we, um, we do notice and acknowledge that as well. Um, I really just, uh, am here to greet you and say thank you and do the welcome. I'm not a, I'm not one of your experts or keynote speakers. Uh, I'm not here unfortunately, to make a big announcement either the deputy didn't leave me with anything in the kit to do that. Um, but I very much appreciate, again, just wanted to say thank you, um, enjoy your day today. You've got some amazing speakers, uh, that will be, uh, speaking to you. And I'm quite sure, um, there'll be an incredible couple of weeks. So thank you very much for having me. Many thanks Attorney General. It's wonderful to have you here this morning. Uh, it's now my pleasure as we talk about leaders of the industry. To introduce Keith McKenzie, commissioner for Electrical Safety. Keith started his electrical career in 1986 after gaining his electrical fitter and mechanics license. He worked for several companies on domestic, commercial hospital, petrochemical and industrial projects. Keith has served on a wide range of boards and committees in the area of apprentice training, construction training competencies, workplace health and safety, and Australian standards, as has been a member of the Electrical Safety Board and Electrical Safety Licensing Committee since 2011.Prior to his role as Commissioner Keith was the president of the Queensland and Northern Territory Electrical Trades Union branches. Welcome Keith.

Keith: Morning, everyone. And, um, thanks for making the effort to get up early. Well, most people will be up early in our industry, so, um,b ut for those who haven't, thanks for making the effort. Welcome, uh, minister, and appreciate you being able to come here. Represent the Deputy Premier and thanks to, uh, for the, um, the effort. Everyone's gone into this for the Department of OIR, including the Electrical Safety office and the Strategic communications team. Um, this summit here is, is obviously started, I think it's back in 2016. And I just wanna acknowledge the, uh, actually two previous commissioners that are here today, Greg Skying and Jack Camp. So over their time in the industry, they still keen to come along to these events and are pretty passionate about our trade. And that's why I guess you guys are here today. So just a couple of updates and we'll, here we go. So with electrical Safety board and committees, um, we acknowledge those members here today, is that one of the values of our Electrical Safety Board and committees is about trusted leaders in the industry, strong leaders and collaborators, innovative change and transition facilitators, and proactive and responsive. That's the, the values of our boards and committees. Do you guys have them same values here today? Yes. Yes. Keith, though hopefully that's the answer because I hope you do, because that's the board. And the committees do come from industry and we believe that is what our values are or should be the same as your values. And you also might have others. Part of our, our boards, um, when we undertake our activities, one of our strategies is about driving safety leadership practices, improve safety culture at all levels of industry and workplaces and collaboration of stakeholders to understand issues and risks. And that's one of the reasons why the summit, uh, was developed. Electrical safety week occurred and it's that popular now. It's, it's electrical safety fortnight. 'cause there's so much to do in our industry, Some of the staff and undertaking tasks that the, the board and the committees are doing and about to commence. We've obviously got electrical safety education. So we do that with our, um, our electrical safety committee and education committee. We're looking at electrical safety podcasts. So when workers and that drive to work, a lot of listen to Triple M or ABC, well, more people than the younger people listen to the podcast on the way to work. So how can we actually tap into that about industry, about safety, our trade, and how good electrical industry is electrical safety town initiative. So we mentioned that last year Hutton's been picked and we're gonna hopefully be in that town in, uh, end of, uh, may or June next year. And, uh, the board and the committee members went out there to have a look at it, um, about four weeks ago. And the town are really keen to actually adopt that. And electrical safety town will obviously get some systems in place to understand what is electrical safety, whether it be the home, the workplace, and education of that. So that'd be awesome when we kick off. Now it's an initiative. Look,we're not rolling it out across every town in Queensland that wants to do it, but we can take our learnings from that and pass it on to all the other regional councils so they actually can develop and provide educational awareness what electrical safety looks like. So Huon was the pick we working on the first responders guide. So, you know, the police fire and ambulances, they turn up to events. But in some regional parts of Queensland, the first responder could be the local school teacher or the, or the butcher or generally the tow truck operator. So when they see a car involved in an event at a,a power line that's in a power pole, and obviously we wanted to stay called and wait, what do they need to do as a first responder to ensure they make the scene safe and provide advice there until actually medical emergency services help working, uh, with an isolation upstream campaign through the electrical licensing committee. We want people to turn off, um, at the, at the main switch and don't work on, on your energised equipment unless there's a, a fairly significant reason that you need to do that. And we're also working with Energy Queensland of a couple initiatives they can do to assist to promote that working safely, upstream. Um, we're also working with a whole range of things like the First Nations schools and retirement homes, getting information to those organisations about, you know, for, for body corporate areas, you know, where's people actually charging their electric scooters and bikes, schools, you know, they come up with the education committee and um, the electrical safety office wrote or Rob Wicks from the ED road to all the school principals saying if you've got kids turning up with e rideable where the bikes or scooters, it's not like back in the day they just parked out in a bit of a, an old fence in the yard, they're probably gonna be parked undercover. Well, don't start having these scooters and bikes stored under the prep area because if a fire does occur. So just providing this common sense advice that we would know. 'cause it's our industry working. We are working with it each and every day to these different organisations. And obviously we saw that, um, last year that don't DIY don't do it yourself campaign initiative. And we want to hopefully start doing some more work without rolling that out as we go along. Because far and few too many people are buying, you know, two meters of cable and a PowerPoint in a junction box. And I'll give you the tip, they're not taking it home for the electrical worker to go and install it.Um, so we've gotta work out strategies. It's okay to buy it, but you can't install it. So we need to do that and educate more people about that. And obviously working with the electrical safety office on how we de develop, um, these different strategies. And also with the strategic communication team at awesome doing it too. So statistics about the electrical licensing committee. So the function of the committee, um, and you might read it from day to day and the, the EAF, It's not necessarily about doing disciplinary matters and I'll get to that shortly, but it's also provide advice to the board and the minister for about if we need to  make any changes to our training, um, and what we are seeing in the industry. But what we're seeing is the community, there's far too many workers and apprentices receiving electric shocks. Your first shock could be the last shock. And the likes of Dale Kennedy and Tim Martin, they only had one shock and they're not here today. Um, and unfortunately when I go and talk to, to trades people and apprentice and say, put your hand up, if you had electric shock, quite a few hands might go up if you had one the last two years, less hands are going up, but there's still too many people receiving electric shock and it's not acceptable. Um, we filing apprentices are failing to test or dunno how to test at all, and they're receiving shocks or they're not locking out. And by doing that, it's not the fault of the apprentices that follow the supervising trades person. So we've gotta make some changes there. And that's all comes out to ineffective supervision. And on uh, Wednesday we used to have a, um, an apprentice event where we used to go to a, tafe, an RTO, we used to get apprentices and trades people to bring their apprentices along there. So this time we've done something different. We've asked, uh, some organisations, we've got electro group along with MEA doing a gig. We've got our Q bill doing a gig, we've got ika apprentices and we've got EQL and potentially by all 'em, doing it with ESO doing a presentation there as well. We should cover between 800 to 900 apprentices all on,uh, all on the Wednesday. So rather than coming to us, we're gonna go to them, which would be, which would be awesome, getting that education out there. So they're the initiatives where we're starting to look at here's some statistics, they're not too flash. Um, but as you know, 27%of statistics are made up, but these are fact. So from the 2024 period, there was 24, uh,people referred the licensing committee, um, relating to a person receiving electric shock. And now the 24 5 involved apprentices are young workers, which is 24%. And in 2025 we haven't finished yet.Um, we still got a few more meetings to go, but eight people referred and this has taken, uh, a month ago, so eight people referred to the LC, um, out of them, five, five apprentices of youngster,that's 62% when an apprentice received a shock. And you know what, it wasn't their fault because they don't get paid to work. They get paid to learn and ensure that they come home at the end of the day as a result of the supervising trades person. So that's not good statistics and the whole range of reasons. And there's all these excuses that ultimately those five electric shocks could be five fatalities.So we've gotta do more as an industry and we are looking at that through um, um, electro, uh,sorry, jet Co and TAFE doing some training as well. So in 2024 we had 12 related to competency issues,six related supervision, 21 related to incorrect testing generally. And in 2025 we got four related to supervision,four competency related, and five related incorrect testing. People still dunno how to test effectively.Here's some statistics. So on the left hand side it's a bit small, but this one here that's pretty high.So that's relating to energized equipment. So we started to keep track of when people come as what are the reasons they've been referred to us by the licensing committee from the electrical safety office and it was energized equipment. And the next one's concerning apprentice and young people. So that's still high. So while trades people are down, which is good, apprentices receiving the shocks. So we've gotta do with more work to be done in industry about that.As far as educating the community, everyone might've been at this website, electrical safety.qld.gov au.It's a pretty cool website. In fact, it's got a lot of information on there and we just gotta keep promoting it. So on there there's information about are you safe at home? Are you safe outside the home? And if you don't wanna buy Christmas presents this year, the least you could do is send an email to your friends and families. Check out this website because there might be something you can actually take away and learn about electrical safety.As a minister said, people just come home, um, and expect the lights to be turned on and you open the fridge and it's cold beer. But when the lights don't come on on the fridge and you've got no power, everything, everyone panics. So it's about being safe.It's when people go to, um, uh, buy, uh, electrical equipment and do their own work because it'd be easy.It's about educating. We don't do that because you might not have in home insurance, you might liven up the earth, um, system and the sonor daughter might come home, grab the tap and they might, they might be their last and their first shock though they have. So we've gotta educate the community more.All information's on that, on this site. We've just gotta get people to it. There's obviously people in this room,I'll get you kid to put your hand up. If you're part of a community organisation with some sort of leadership role, you might be the quarter master,you might be a president or secretary or treasurer. And the PNC put your hand up if you've got some sort of role, right?Happy days. What can you do in your community group if about electrical safety or if you're part of the soccer club or the netball club or the Polo Club? What influence have you got there to say, Hey, by the way, way, who checked your safety switches every three months? Or do we even have safety switches? If requirements or people are bring items in that, uh, organisation, do they ensure that they might have a tag on it? What can we do and influence the industry? 'cause we are leaders to go do our community groups. Are our community groups electrically safe or no one cares? So I put that challenge out to, you'd have a think about about that. And some of the activities we're engaging with First nations of communities. Done quite a few activities last year with Yarrabah community. Went to the Magpie Cup and talked to young people there about electrical safety. We wanna do regional communities, multicultural communities,people don English is not their first language. How we can provide information to them about electrical safety, children and teenagers.  the wiggles campaign's out there and it's going quite well, but how do we actually engage with the teenagers who still charge their laptops on theirbed and they, and they might be buying equipment because it's cheap on Temu or whatever. And that's, does it meet our requirements in Queensland, in Australia, people in retirement villages. So when people, you know, with their electric scooters, where are they getting in charge? How can we inform the retirement villages of places and safety of that community organisations? And we're always educating workers, which is good. Some take home messages. Everyone's got the right to return home safely from work. There's generally no second chance when it comes to electrical incidents and electricity can kill. So we all get it. The next slide I want to show you, and this is a, I hope it's the next slide.It's a video. It was done in Victoria in 2011, and I like it and I reckon it sends a message. So the electrical safety officer did these great technical videos and I encourage you to watch 'em when we do the, the videos, um, like the Dale Kennedy story,and I love you dad and Tim's story. But this is a message why I think you guys are here today. And and I say this and because you give a s**t about your industry. You care about people, whether it be yourself and the community. But have a look about this video and where's, dad, I didn't hear you. I wonder how am I still,I can, the most important reason for making your workplace safe say,Is not at work at all. So that video is about 2011 part of their coming home series, but that's why we want to get that message out to you guys who get it. Some of you guys will obviously be looking after tradespeople, uh, and apprentices. Um, some people might look after for family at home, but there's a reason why we want to come home every day. And, and I like that even the teenage kids, well, they weren't too keen, but at least their dog was keen to see 'em come home. Everyone has a reason to come home, which is great. And that's really the message, I guess, why you're here today. It's why we've got 300 people online and watching this today.And thanks for tuning in. But it's about taking something home from this summit and, uh, you'll certainly hear from our other guest presenters today, and hopefully this will make a difference in your business, in your workplace. And it might be one thing, um, we'll get you to change, which is what we wanna see today. So thanks very much. Thanks, Keith. I think there's some incredibly powerful messages there as mc,I I love it when we sneak in these videos, which make me tear up in the corner and then I've gotta pull myself together,uh, to get back on stage. But it's that critical reminder of what do we go home for? And the leaders in this room and the work that's being undertaken by so many different people to ensure that our workers and communities are safe and it's incredible work, we still see those incidents occurring and there's clearly more we can do.And in the topic of clearly more we can do. Um, it's my pleasure to introduce Robert Wicks from the Electrical safety office. Robert is the acting executive director of the electrical safety office, overseeing the strategic delivery of electrical safety across Queensland. And today Robert is gonna provide an update fromthe Electrical safety office. Welcome, Robert.

Robert: Good morning everybody. Uh, thank you for joining us as we kick off what is a very important two weeks here through electrical safety fortnight. Uh, my name is Robert Wicks. I'm the executive director for the Electrical Safety Office. For those of you who are less familiar with the work of the ESO, uh, we are the regulator for Queensland responsiblef or administering the Electrical Safety Act. And our purpose is to, uh, eliminate the human cost of electricity. That is the, the deaths, the injuries, and the destruction of property that electricity can cause. We do that through a broad range of means. We have licensing and authorizations frameworks, we have robust equipment regulation, we have, um, education and advice, and we monitor compliance and enforce requirements with the legislation. We work closely with our partners of the Electrical Safety Board and the committees, and I welcome all of them who are here today. We also work in close alignment with our colleagues in Workplace Health and Safety Queensland, and we collaborate closely with industry, with the industry groups to ensure, uh, electrical safety across Queensland. And I thank you all who are here today in joining us online for your efforts in supporting us to do so.As you all know, the risk of death injury and destruction of property caused by electricity is ever present. A nd electrical safety fortnight is about shining a spotlight on those risks and reinforcing the importance of safe practices, not just for the fortnight, but each and every day. This morning I'll talk you through some of the ESO recent activity, share what the data tells us about serious electrical incidents and talk about our priorities as a regulator looking ahead. The reason I'm doing this is because behind each and every one of these statistics is a person is a member of a family and a part of our community,  that's what drives the work that we do. So our recently published annual report provides a wide range of activity, uh, and data from the regulator over the 24 25 financial year. During the year, the electrical safety office conducted more than 1200 reactive assessments. So these are complaintsa nd notifications that come through to the regulator that while important don't meet the threshold of notification obligations. Under the act, through our comor compliance program, we conducted over 2100 audits across high priority areas.A nd where non-compliance was identified, inspectors took action to ensure the safety of others. They issued over 1600 notices, most commonly for breaches of the wiring rules, unlicensed electrical work and failures to properly manage electrical risk. Six prosecution matters were finalised before the courts over the year resulting in over $250,000 in penalties being handed down and 55 referrals to the licensing committee were made. Um, some of you might be doing the math saying that's a different number than one. Keith's just had. Keith spoke about the electric shocks. Uh, there are other reasons that the regulator would refer a person to the licensing committee, and that might be because the inspectors attending found installation work that was so defective we had to immediately disconnect it, just as an example. And we certainly prioritise and take action on matters that relate to apprentices. On the licensing front, we launched a new online licensing platform late last year. Uh, some of you in the room are probably already familiar with it. It was developed and implemented to make life easier for industry to, um, apply for, manage and renew their licenses. Online. Applications for licenses continue to grow, so we're seeing an increasing trend each year. Uh, over 5,600 work licenses were issued over the last 12 months. 1500 odd contractor licenses were also issued. And since 2019, we've been seeing, uh, an increasing year on year end. Um, now we're talking about nearly 65,000 work license holders and around 13 and a half thousand contractors calling Queensland home. We've maintained a strong focus on electrical equipment safety through regular testing and audits, supporting recalls and assisting with fire examinations where electrical equipment is suspected at fault. We've contributed to the development of new online certification and a registration database for electrical equipment sold to household consumers. That platform launched in November and since going live, we've seen strong engagement with over 3,700 responsible suppliers onboarded and over 18,000 items of electrical equipment registered for sale in our marketplaces. These are all great snapshot, uh, great snapshots. Beg your pardon, of work that is done to prevent harmand address non-compliance. But next I'll discuss some of the data that we're seeing in sex serious electrical incidents. These are notifiable incidents. These are cases where a person has died or been injured and required treatment of a doctor following receiving electric shock or in, uh, electric shock, sorry. These are the incidents that have the biggest impact on people and re represent the highest risks that we need to focus our attention on. So what we're looking at here is a number of serious electrical incidents or sess reported over a period of time. So over the past five years, the trend has been relatively steady. In total we've seen about 108 incidents reported. Um, tragically 20 of those were fatal. Most of the deaths involved people coming into contact with electricity while they were performing work, but 35% of them were people in their own home or going about their lives in the community. Sadly, we continue to see incidents arising from people attempting to do their own electrical work. The highest overall contributing factor to scis, uh, wasa s a result of coming into contact with overhead lines. And also notably last year we saw three separate incidents occurring where people were performing work in their own roof spaces or in the work, uh, in the workplace in a ceiling space.When we break incidents down further, 34 of those incidents involved a licensed electrical worker and eight involved apprentices and the SE linked to apprentice activity wherefor tasks like removing redundant cables or replacing fluorescent tubes or replacing a control panel on air conditioning units, things of that kind and all of them can be traced back to ineffective supervision across all industries. The majority of SE occurred in construction and then the electrical supply, manufacturing and transport sectors to really understand these incidents. We also give regard to the types of equipment that were involved. And as we can see, overhead power lines, fixed wiring and switchboards continue to dominate. These aren't new issues. I'm sure you're all familiar. I'm sure you've all recognized these types of things in the day-to-day work that you do. But given that they continue to appear, it reinforces the importance of getting back to the basics of our safety fundamentals. So we look at this data and, and given we've got a handful of minutes, I haven't gone into all of the reports that the ESA received, but we take this data and we use it to inform our priorities as a regulator for the next year and the years beyond. And so I'll touch on what that looks like for us. From here, our key priorities, we have three key strategies that we're in the process of developing and implementing. These include, uh, an overhead and underground line strategy. We'll be working with industry bodies, uh, the entities and across a number of different stakeholder groups to develop, uh, a strategy to reduce the incidences of contact with overhead lines. In particular, we'll be working, um, closely to address the issues around working on or near energized electrical equipment. And we'll be strengthening ourremote and regional engagement. Our compliance monitoring program will target high riskare as including major projects, domestic construction, renewable energy sites, and other high risk environments. A key focus will be reinforcing the importance of safe practices and approaching risk assessments when onor near, uh, electrical equipment, uh, when working on and near electrical equipment that's energised and inspectors will be closely monitoring correct testing practices, ensuring the installation standards have been followed. Supervision of apprentices will remain a priority, making sure electrical workers are competent and they've been, um, trained to perform the tasks they're being asked to perform. Other key areas of focus will be working in ceiling spaces and we'll be continuing our strong emphasis on preventing unlicensed and DIY electrical work. Our message in that regard remains simple. Don't DIY. It only puts you your loved ones and others at risk. We continue to engage in the development and maintenance of standards to keep pace with the ever-changing electrical equipment environment through administering the electrical equipment safety system. Um, we'll be ensuring that check testing is performed and ensuring that household electrical equipment entering the market is safe for the community. We'll be delivering it through our remote and regional engagement strategy. Um, targeted messaging to regional communities, whether that be for things like safety switch campaigns, overhead line safety or educating around those emerging areas Keith spoke about in particular, lithium-ion batteries, immobility devices, and battery energy storage systems. As we're seeing more and more of these enter our communities in regards to legislation, the office of Industrial relation commenced the, uh, sunset review of the electrical safety regulations earlier in the year, consultation with key stakeholders was commenced, um, and will be engaging with them further before a remake of those regulations is finalized, likely to be late this year, early next also, um, the Office of Industrial Relations will soon be doing public consultation on the review of the children and Young Workers Code of practice, which is an approved code of practice under the Workplace Health and Safety Act. And they'll be reviewed to ensure that the um, proposed feedback for apprentices and young workers, uh, reflects the unique experience in the workplace. So we're certainly encouraging feedback from industry and apprentices and young workers to ensure that that code is fit for purpose. To find out more about consultation on those two things, you can subscribe to our EAF, follow us on Facebook, or you can check out the webpage on WorkSafe queensland.gov au. So to finish up in these few minutes, I've touched on some of the key insights that we draw from the types of incidents that the ESO respond to. While electrical safety fortnight is an important commitment to recognizing and prioritizing safety across our   communities, it's crucial that we remember our safety fundamentals every single day, not just during these two weeks. I hope you enjoy this morning's events and have a chance to participate in some of the other activities that we have planned over the fortnight. You sure to learn something new about electrical safety and connect with others in your industry? It's not too late to register or join one of our events. Simply, um, follow us on Facebook, as I've said, or jump on electrical safety.qld.gov au and click on electrical safety, find Fortnite to find out more. You'll also be able to find ESO staff engaging with community and other industry events across Queensland. Throughout the next couple of weeks, I'll hand back to Belinda now. Thank you very much and I hope you have a safe, engaging and informative electrical safety fortnight. Cheers.

Belinda: Thanks, Robert. It's, um, it's incredible to see the amount of work going on, uh, and those principles around people being competent, trained, supervised, and from the DIY perspective. How do we protect people from themselves? Uh, so thank you for that work and those continued initiatives. I'm fortunate to have two young people in my household,a 19-year-old and a 17-year-old, and what a joy that is in this stage. Uh, but of all things while they think they're bulletproof, I think there's this incredible fundamental piece around how do we keep young workers and young people safe? And, um, I look forward to introducing Donna Pickford, who's the CEO of Electro Group. And Donna, as the CEO of Electric Electro Group leads the delivery and training of electrical, solar, and telecommunications technologies. She's been instrumental in establishing the renewable energy training facility, supporting electric apprentices, licensed electricians and students to gain and upgrade their skills in renewable energy systems. Helping to build a future ready workforce for Queensland. Donna will be sharing those exact issues and experiences around how do we protect young workers and how do we set them up for success. Welcome Donna.

Donna Pickford: Um, good morning everyone. And I'd like to thank the electrical safety office for inviting me to speak today. My name is Donna Pickford and I'm the CEO of Electro Group. At any one time, we employ over 300 electrical   we train over 700 apprentices throughout Queensland. We only deal with electro technology. As an industry, we know the facts. Apprentices are our future workforce, but they're also our most vulnerable. They are young, often in their first job and working in high risk environments. You can't see it, you can't smell it. But electricity kills if we don't get safety right from day one. We put lives at risk and we put the future strength of our industry at risk. So who are we? Electro Group is owned by the industry. For the industry. We are both a group, training organisation and a training organisation. Our purpose is clear. We employ support apprentices with safe placements, mentoring and HR support, but we also train them so that they become safe, skilled electricians. We sit at the centere, we bring together the apprentices, the employers, and the industry. So protecting our young workers. First of all, we need to look at onboarding and induction .So our induction is not just the tick and flick, it is quite comprehensive. Electro group have a seven day induction. We cover PPE, hazard reporting, fatigue management, drugs and alcohol, asbestos, silica awareness, safe isolation, electrical hazards. The apprentices watch forever. Young. They hear from mates in construction. They learn to work safely at heights, but most of all, they learn about supervision, supervision, supervision. If you're not supervised, stop. They are signed off at every stageto make sure they understand. And induction is not all about policies and procedures and ticks and flicks. Our induction is about ensuring we can get as much information and education into our apprentices before they go out into a dangerous occupation. Every apprentice must be aware of the risks involved in working with electricity when entering or working in the electrical industry. The danger is real. All electric shocks must be avoided. All shocks are potentially fatal. Minor shocks could have resulted in death or injury. If circumstances were slightly differently our first shock could be your last shock. Make electrical safety at work your number one priority from day one. They are told you have the right to stop if you feel unsafe, right? So mentoring and supervision training means nothing if our supervision fails. A few months ago, one of our first years suffered an electric shock while left unsupervised on a live circuit. And he ended up actually in hospital overnight. The supervisor was distracted, he took a phone call and he walked away. The apprentice should have stopped working, but he didn't. He was so eager that he moved the ladder and continued to work. That moment of distraction could have had devastating consequences. Everyone walked away this time, but what about next time? You can't see it. You can't smell it. But it is dangerous. lThis in industry and this job are not for the ones that you can ever be complacent from Day one, supervisors,trainers, field officers and peers need to remember this and drill it into our apprentices every single day.You are working at heights, you are working with electricity. This is a profession not to be taken lightly. Training and safety culture at college and every field visit, we embed safety into everything we do. Every unit we teach, every visit we have, every conversation is around safety. Doing the job right means doing it safely. We've seen apprentices speak up and stop unsafe work,and that's what a real safety culture does look like. So for a group training, organisation, compliance is not just paperwork, it's protection, ensuring they've got the right PPE and uniforms. Ensuring work sites we place our apprentices on are safe, ensuring the apprentices and supervisors are fully informed and know the supervision guidelines, mentoring and college attendance, checking time sheets, only placing apprentices with hosts that meet our workplace health and safety standards. And stepping in on any HR safety issues.B ut here's the challenge. You can implement any standard you want in the any business or industry. But unless we can embed it into the culture of everyone in the industry and every ensure people are listening and practicing it, we will not succeed as an industry supervision. So the safe working supervision guidelines for electrical apprentices is very, very clear. Every apprentice must be supervised at all times by a licensed electrical worker. Supervision must be appropriate to the task, the apprentices experience, and their level of knowledge and the risk which you are asking them to perform the task. In the first six months, an apprentice must not work on or anywhere near live parts test. Before you touch, lock out, tag out, and never trust somebody else to isolate. Now this isn't this guy, sorry. Now this guide is not Legislation in itself is a guidance document issued by the electrical safety office, but it interprets and reinforces the duties that already exist under the Electrical Safety Act of 2002and the electrical safety regulations 2013. It sets up what the ESO considers to be the minimum expectation for supervising apprentices. Inspectors use it to measure whether A-P-C-V-Uor supervisor is meeting their duty of care. So technically the laws and regulations are binding while the guide itself reflects minimum standards needed to comply with the law. And that means these are not best practice. They're actually the bare minimum expectations set out in the supervision guidelines. And if we don't even meet these, then we're failing our apprentices at electro group.We go further, we lead with culture mentoring and rural oversight. But if the wider industry doesn't even meet this minimum, then we are letting our workers down. Now I'd just like to introduce Kenny Chu to the stage and he's just gonna run through some of the supervision guidelines. He's one of our field officers.

Kenny: morning everybody. My name's Kenny. I'm a field officer over at Electric Group, uh, for the past five years, and I've recently moved into the Safety officer role. Uh, previously I worked on tools for about 10 years before completing my time. It's a bit intimidating, isn't it? Um, with Electric Group. Uh, today I wanna talk to you about some points. I think everybody has this on their tables. Uh, it is the Safe Working and Supervision Guide for Electrical Apprentices. As a field officer at Electric Group, I get asked from time to time I about supervision of apprentices and how, when, why,and what level of supervision is appropriate. This guide covers the basic electrical safety practices that every electrical apprentice should follow. It is written for apprentices, their employer, and their supervisors. The aim is to assist apprentices in ensuring that they have base, uh, sufficient basic knowledge of electrical safety and safe work practices. Prior to commencing an electrical apprenticeship apprentice must be supervised throughout their apprenticeship. This is a legal requirement for every stage. As a supervisor, you need to supervise your apprentices, install safety procedures, and establish a good safety standard from day one. As an apprentice, you need to ensure you take safety as priority and have open communication with your own employer. We Look, I'm sure it's scary as an apprentice to speak up about safety concerns, but if a company has open communication with their apprentices, it's a start to create that great safety culture that we should all strive for.I sometimes get asked, can I leave my fourth year apprentice to supervise my first year apprentice if they're just roughing in cables, installing cables. My answer, only licensed electrical workers can supervise electrical apprentices when supervising apprentices. There are a few basic things you can do to help create a safer work environment. Before work, have the conversation with the apprentice and check the supervision on site. Ensure your apprentices understand how to do each task safely. Reiterate if you have any safety concerns to speak up when working. Always for the safe work methods, procedures,  always test before you touch and on completion of work. Ask your apprentices if there was any safety concerns during the shift and if there was, communicate. Support your apprentice to create a safer work environment when creating good safety culture within our apprentices. It starts from day one by educating the basic safety standards in our industry. Educate the apprentices by providing the correct PPE and explain why we have to wear them. Explain the safe work work practices and tell them they can speak up if they have any safety concerns at all. Yes, as an employer, we need to make sure our apprentices goto work, but more importantly, we need to make sure our apprentices come home safely. I want to read to you the supervision levels from this document and the actual definitions as this is something I get asked all the time. There are three levels of supervision that are agreed, industry standards, direct, general, and broad. First up, direct supervision is when our supervisor constantly monitors an apprentice. The supervisor should always remain readily available. So that's within earshot or eyeshot. Okay? This level applies to where apprentices require constant guidance and monitoring by apprentices, by supervising electrical workers to ensure the work task is carried out safely and correctly. General supervision is when a supervisor is not constantly reviewing the apprentice, but remains available in person for assistance or instruction as required. This does not include FaceTime or video conferencing. The supervising electrical worker must remain on the same work site as the apprentice and be readily available for guidance. And lastly, broad supervision. Broad supervision is where supervisor only needs to make occasional face-to-face contact at Ible is determined, suitable by the supervisor. Adequate apprentice supervision cannot solely be provided from offsite, offsite locations via phone, radios or webcams. I ask you all to read and share this document. It's basic and it can save lives. Alright, that's enough for me. But I am gonna leave you all with one question. If you are the employer of an apprentice, are you providing the appropriate supervision for your apprentice? I just one more.I f you are the employer of an apprentice, are you providing the appropriate supervision or your apprentices on site? Thank you. I hand you back over to Donna.

Belinda: Thank you Kenny. So there we have it. We have both a legal duty and a moral duty. Apprentices deserve more than a start in the trade. They deserve a safe start. Supervision, mentoring and culture must sit at the heart of every workplace. Compliance is the floor. Leadership is about lifting standards above the bare minimum. If we invest in apprentices now, we'll secure the safe skilled workforce Queensland needs for renewables infrastructure and for the 2032 Olympics. At Elector Group, safety is the core of everything we do. I invite every one of you, employers, trainers, regulators, and industry leaders to step up, meet the guidelines, and aim to build a safer future for our apprentices. Because in this profession, and by the way, it's actually a profession. It's not just the trade anymore. People think trades are just trades.It's actually a chosen profession for you. Complacency can kill every one of us has to ensuret hat we supervise our apprentice apprentices and they go home safely at the end of it every day.Thank you.

Belinda: Thank you Donna and Kenny for those powerful messages. I love that reminder that doing the job right means doing it safely. Supervision and creating spaces where apprentices can speak up and feel safe to do so, encouraging them to be able to do itand enabling them is two different things. Uh, and now we're gonna hear from Scott Sinclair, uh, with regard to the compliance in an electrical enterprise. And Scott is the general manager of electrical services of Fallon Solutions. Scott brings more than four decades of experience across the electrical industry, beginning his apprenticeship in 1981. He has worked across commercial and industrial installations, high voltage transformer manufacturing and testing, solar PV design and installation and large scale government and defense projects. After nearly two decades in management with a growing contracting business, he joined Fallon Solutions in 2010, where he now serves as general manager. Under his leadership, Fallon has delivered major projects to Brisbane City Council and Queensland government, including flood recovery works, school upgrades, and large scale sports lighting. Today, Fallon is an incredible $50 million business, continuing to grow its domestic services arm while expanding nto solar PV and battery solutions. And Scott is here to talk to us about what compliance is in an electrical enterprise. Thanks, Scott.

Scott Sinclair: Well, good morning everyone. Um, these, I've been to a few of these events and it seems to be just getting bigger and better every time. I I come along and, um, Keith asked me to comeand do a, a talk on, um, compliance in, in our business.We've got a very diverse business. It's, um, covers a lot of different areas and, um, I'm not an expert in electrical compliance,but we're all experts within our own businesses. And what I thought I'd talk about today is how we manageour compliance and, um, a little bit of a history about Fallon Solutions.We've been going for a long time.So, um, Neil Fallon, he, uh, he started it in 1962.Uh, there's a picture there of Neil standing beside his HD panel van.Very proud moment for him, um, early on. So, so Neil, um, he ran around there for a little while, um,doing his own stuff. Um, he apprenticed his son Matt. Um, and then Matt was general manager of the business, uh,there as well, uh, before me. And he actually started, um,Brisbane Antenna Services, which was a really big part of his business and was involved in the rolloutof the first lot of pay tv, um, galaxy, some of us older people in the room who might remember that.It just reminded me when Belinda said four decades, it's like, it's gone so quick.Um, and then, um, in, in 2005, Neil was at retirement age, so he decided to, um,to sell the business. And the business was bought by, um, markand Natalie Denning, who are still within the business now, and two other private investors now.Um, and what what Mark did is he's got a very smart business mine. He added the other services to our business plumbing.Um, in 2006 today, the plumbers were almost as as big as the electrical part of the businessthat Neil started back in the day. And, um, and then in 2008 we added, um, hvac, um,which, um, is still a very big part of our business and it's important part of our, our business as wellwith our service offering. Uh, I'll talk a little bit more about that on the next slide.But we are a very domestic, uh, facing business. And we deliver two homes.It's 90, 95% of what we do is to be the one call trade professionaland be able to basically fix everything around the home. Um, so in 2010 is the important one when I started.So the, um, and I started the business as a project managerand then quickly moved on to be the general manager. And, and I've sat in that role, uh, now for 15 years.I'm also, uh, the QTP on the business. And, um, we, you know, we strive like everyone doesto do the best we can with, with safety. Um, a big game changerfor us was in 2014 we decided to do upfront pricing.So what that basically is, is we give everyone a quote for what we do before we start the work.But the important part of it that I really liked is, is we do what we call a home safety inspection.Now we look at everything within the home, but the respective trades look at what they do.So we look at everything, we look at the switchboard, we look at the earth stake, we look at the smoke alarms,we look at the downlights. And all we do then is we just give the customers some options to choose from.And I tell my guys as a licensed electrician in someone's home, I think it's our duty to look at that stuff.Um, we all get very tasked focused on just doing that ceiling fan or just installing those down lights.But look at the big picture, give the customers some options. They may want to fix that, that sort of stuff up.Um, and we hope that they do 'cause it's, um, great for electrical safety, helps me sleep at night after we've been thereand we've done the inspection. So, uh, 2018, um,I, uh, sat through all the judging for Master Electrician of the year and, um, we managed to, uh, winthe whole of, uh, for Queensland and then went backand competed against everyone else in the nation and we won, won it for the nationals. So a great, great accolade there.And, and Greg scarring was on the, uh, on the judging at that point.And, um, so now, um, we've spent, uh, five yearsand about $5 million, um, developing our own software. Um, and the good thing about that is,is you can tailor it very closely to your own business. Now we've got a very interactive risk assessment process.Um, there's a lot of good software out there and there's a lot of good programs out there. But because we do domesticand there's so many different things that the guys could come up against, um, it allowed us to build it very tailored to our business.So, um, works really well for us and we've got all the records and everything in the background as well and exciting times ahead.So as you can see there, we do, um, plumbing data and TV appliance repairs, electrical, carpentry, drainage, air conditioning, security, CTTV, solarHot Water, and we service all of the Brisbane area. Um, so Logan Ipswich, all of Bayside and go out to, um, you know, as far as we as we can towards Toowoomba. And we also, we've added the Sunshine Coast recently and the Gold Coast. Um, so yeah, the, we have a lot of, um, a lotof training sessions, which I'll talk a little bit about, more about. Now. One of our businesses as well is Australian Sports Lighting Solutions. Um, we still do some of this work. That was one of our more recent larger jobs, which was the, uh, sunshine Coast Stadium.And we actually finished that job in, um, February, 2020.And pretty much everything closed down after that. So if you guys remember, there was the NRL bubble and, uh, that actual stadium was used for, um, a lot of the other clubs from down south in Canberra and all over the place that come and trained there. So, uh, we, yeah, so it's that basically dormant for, uh,for five months except for that, that, um, that training stuff there. So with a job like that, there's a lot of, um,a lot of risks and a lot of compliance, a lot of things that electricians wouldn't normally think about. Um, uh, you know, footings, foundations, there's,um, cranes, you know, we've got QBCC and um, licensing, uh, for that as well.Winching the poles together. There's lots of loose risks for that. And I was there on the day,we actually built the head frames on the ground and wired them on the ground, and then we stood the poleand then bolted the lights to the top of it. So getting all of that to, to fitand get the cable down the, the hole was a bit of a challenge. So, um, we don't do a lot of that sort of stuff now.We're a fairly risk adverse business and, um, there's a lot of players in that market as well.Pretty Cool project though. That one was. We, we enjoyed that one.Um, so about compliance, we, Being a a $50 million business meansthat we have smart people in a lot of places, and I'm fortunate to have someone that can lookafter a lot of the, the things that I'm not an expert at.Um, like tax laws and things like that. We've got accountants that work for us.Um, all the QBCC stuff, it's mainly with the plumbing. So, you know, we've got the, the advantage there.So what I'll talk about is what I know about and, and our business and what I'm, I'm hoping to do this morning is to give you guys just a little bitof value and, and maybe take on on some of the stuff that, that we do. There's some big players in the room here.And, um, you know what, what we do is, is small in comparison, but we do a lot of jobs, uh,for 30,000 jobs a year across the business in all the different areas that we, that we have.So there was a training session at the Glen Hotel one morning.Alrighty. So we do, um, fortnightly training, and that's about our stuff as well as everything elsethat's, that's in the industry. Um, we like to get the guys together, uh, once a month.Uh, because being in, in domestic, you work by yourself a lot.You, um, you don't get to see the other guys very much. You see the apprentices, you might work on a job together every now and then.But to get the feeling of culture and inclusion, we have the, um, a monthly, um, toolbox talk.And that's, um, we have it at a, a local footy club 'cause we can't, can't fit in our office.And we get guest speakers from our all around the place. Um, workplace healthand safety, electrical safety office, um, people that, uh, provide our equipment as well.They can be very knowledgeable. Um, and sometimes it's not because they're, they're pushing their product and that,but they're also very, um, knowledgeable about the rest of the industry. And, and the the way that I see it is if you can,you can train your people on stuff that, even if it's not stuff that you do, it can helpwith retention, with, with people. And it, it is a, it is a problem if you, you know,you just train someone un up nicely and then they've got that carrot that's dangling and they want to go and run somewhere else.Um, so we do quarterly, um, toolbox meetings and we, we pick fouror those different topics for the year, um, six monthly training.And what we do that, that picture at the Glen Hotel before is we'll get in a, like a motivational type of speaker and that's more about the personand, um, you know, about what, what they can learnoutside of their trade and about them and to be able to prove, improve themselves in, in general.Um, you know, we do being a trade business, we do a lot of training around that. So we just give those guys, uh, that we also, uh,do our switchboard school as we call it, which is, uh, we get the boys in, um, it's a two hour session.We get 'em in after work. Uh, we started at four 30 and then we, we put them through the test board,which is basically what the guys need to do for Capstone. Um, it's a written assessment as well as, um, they'vesit in, they do the test board and we do it in groups of six or eight, so it's not too many in the room.If you're trying to do that with a group of 20 guys, it's, it's too hard to control. So we keep it small and, um, and we just do more of it.So the, um, all of it's like 50 hours that, uh, we put into the guys.So on the day-to-day sort of stuff that we do, um, myself, um, as QTP in the business, um,I've got another QTP dini's down there this morning as well.And, um, we like to look at everything. We can't see everything and it's in an, is an auditing fashion that we do this in.But anything that we're gonna put in a, a form to interject all the solarsand everything that we do, we wanna see that stuff as well. Um, again, with a business of our size, we've got, um,an onboard safety guy and we have a consultant as well that we use justto make sure that we're doing everything right. A fellow that's been in the industry for a long time,XRG X 40 years in that field. So he also brings a lot of the knowledge that we don't haveas a, as a domestic contractor. Um, and talks about the, the entityand the distribution side more, which really gives the guys a good understanding about that.So we do the, um, monthly desktop audits, which we take a lot of photos of our jobs in our,in our system, and we look through that. Um, and that can be, you know, did you consider that that,Um, material on in the ceiling is asbestos? Um, you know, through to the new stuffwhere everything gets turned off when you go on the roof. Uh, just making sure that the guys are following ourprocess, um, both on the electrical compliance and our, and our workflow.The, um, we get out there in the field as well. And we don't do that. We sort of do that in a surprise waywhere, um, we'll just turn up at the job, the boys are there working away, um, walk on site, make surethat they sign you onto the risk assessment while you're there. And, um, and we just take the timeand we go through all the, the things. We get a checklist, um, and we make sure that they're locking out properly and, and,and following our procedures all the way through. We also do a vehicle check and make sure that the van's in pretty good condition,their ladders are tied on well, and, and that sort of stuff. Just as a reminder that, you know, we are,we are driving those vehicles all around town and it does represent us. Um, it's our mobile billboardsand, uh, we don't want to lose a ladder on there in one. So, uh, Uh,the PPE management, um, we, we get a, an external in to do that, um, mobile test.And Cal, I think is really the only, only guys out there that are doing it. We do all of our gloves and mats and pole sticks.We choose to do that every six months. Um, I don't wanna take the risk with that.I don't wanna find out that, you know, someone's caught a got a shock and there's a hole in someone's glove.It's nothing that I want to do. So, um,and we have our own, um, safety committee with within the business, um, all the different stakeholders in the business,in the different departments. There's people that sit in air conditioning and in plumbing, um, the owners of the business, um,a field representative. And we have a safety committee and we, we run through any of the incidentsand stuff that have happened throughout the month, uh, sorry, the quarter. And then, um, we work on corrective actionsand permanent corrective actions. And, um, there might be something that we just stop doing,um, which is always on the cards. Alright, so competency gradingwith our apprentices is something that, you know, we,this is different for every business and, um, you know, what we do may not suit everyone's business,but we need to do what works for us. So something that we've, um, brought in, um,just recently is the apprentice handbook. And what's in there is, it's, it's about what we expectas a business from the app apprentice and, and also what they're meant to do as an, as an apprentice.And we have, um, we don't have a lot of apprentices, but we have a mix of electric group apprenticesand we have a mix of our own that directly work for us. And we treat all of our apprenticesas if they are employees, whether they're a RA group, first year, first week, we give them all of the same.The other thing down there is something we've implemented is just a, a tag that the apprentices wear.And, and what's what's on there is, is their year level. If they go and work with the guy that they haven't seenor worked with before, um, it's known then. And what we've done on the, on the backof it is we've put a QR code so it's easy for the guys to get to our tracker where we've,the guys do their e profiling, but we have our own tracker, I'll call it felon profiling.Sounds a bit weird, but, um, what they do is it's per job. Uh, so they, and it's not a a, a big thing, it's just aboutwhat they actually do per job. Um, simple job, job number for us.And then it's, um, help the electrician install smoke alarms or it could be, uh, we roughed in a, an extensionor it could be we did some underground mains and just to that level of detail. And it's, and it's per job and all in all of these great systems, um, we needto monitor it to make sure that it's getting done. So, uh, and we do, um, I think it's just Microsoft Forms, isn't it, Dean?Yeah. Um, we like to, I like to keep things simple. I'm old school and keep, keep it simple.Um, We have mentoring meetings, uh, with the apprentices.Uh, we do that about every six months. Um, we get feedback from the, from the guys out there.It's something that we've brought into is just a recognition for an apprentice. Um, at our monthly, um, toolbox talks, uh, we askall the guys out there and they'll put a name forward and we give them, uh, you know, get 'em up in front of everyone, say well doneand give them a voucher for, um, a cup of coffee down the road. And hopefully they don't waste too much time down there.Uh, and uh, We've brought in, um,a fourth year lead apprentice. So what that's about is, is that sometimes an apprenticeyoung first year, I've just started with the business, they're all a bit big and scary.They may not want to say something to the tradesman, they may not want to talk to the supervisor,they may not wanna talk to the team leader. They don't wanna talk to me. Um, but what's about is, is is our fourth year apprentice,um, and we, we swap it out as they get into their later paths of their fourth year, they become like we call a lead apprenticeand that's someone for the other younger apprentices to talk to. And they can, um, talk about different thingsand it might be that, that burning thing that they dunno who to ask and I'd rather have them someone to ask and,and then ask, have some sort of an incident where they haven't been. Sure. Um, yeah, so that's, you know, somethingthat we've, we've brought in, the guys have their own, the apprentices have their own do not operate lockout tagthat gets put on the padlock with the tradesman's tag as well.Um, so that it's, they've, they've got a buy-in in the, in the risk assessmentand they've got a buy-in in the lockout procedure, uh, for the work.So our onboarding process to the business, we, um, and something I've learned is'cause someone's an electrician, they've got an electrical license, it doesn't mean that they suit your business'cause everyone's does different things. And even in the domestic space, there's people that do it a lot differently to what we do.Um, so we've invested In, um, in our 10 day, um, onboarding,we have a classroom type training, which is four or five days doing that. It depends on how well that they pick things upand we want them to learn it and, and know it. Um, it's about our systems and processesand it's also about, um, you know, being able to perform the work to a level.I think it's meeting the expectation when you go to a new employer, you dunno what the expectation is.Um, you know, when, when I interview people, I ask them about what sort of testing they do.Um, do you know what the trailing leads for? Do you have a fluke meter? Do you have a risu?And some, sometimes they, more often than I'd like, theydon't really know what a trailing leads for. Um, so all we can do aselectricians and I'm a proud electrician, is to, to try and help those guys.Um, it's like, oh, the boss didn't provide one. I wasn't sure. So we give them to them and we test them and,and make sure that they actually use it with our photos and stuff.We give them that classroom training, then we put 'em out on the road with someone else. They do a sit beside, we call a lot of ride alongand they actually see the stuff that they've learned in the classroom and they sit beside them. Um, we do practical assessments as 3000 sort of stuff.Um, we have a, um, a, a board that they, they look at and they write me a list of faultsand it gives me an understanding of where they're at with what they understand about the domestic work.Um, and then, um, standards. And we do a, um, one for the supplier authority, whichthat's just changed. So we are going to, uh, change what we do there.So, um, industry challenges. Look, it's solar's the buzz at the momentand it's, it's definitely dominating our, our business, um, with, and it's also with what people want as well.They may not want, um, the smoke alarms that they probably need,but they're interested in, in getting the battery because it's what the buzz is at the moment. So, you know, we see that, um, every time there's this sortof thing evolving, technologies generation storage, vehicle charging, look, what a great space. And there's so much smart technology coming in there.Um, and you know, being able to keep up with that technology.Um, the, the apprentices being involved with it as well, where, you know, when it's not just main switchboardand some PowerPoints now we've got energy generation systems within our homes and, um, different challengesand risks around all of that as well.And inferior, inferior equipment entering the market is always a concern as well.We do have a lot of checks and balances and we're very fortunate in Australia to have a lot of that stuff, and particularly in Queensland,but we don't know some of this stuff until down the track a little bit further.So success stories for us, um, you know, we've always got a willingness to adaptand evolve to different things that, that happen out there.The, uh, upfront pricing for us was, uh, was a bit of a game changer. So we did this in the inspection,that home safety inspection I told you guys about. And what that meant is, is that it slowed us downbecause the guys just aren't straight on the clock when they get there. They, they do the inspection, which takes up to 45 minutesto, to look at everything throughout the home and then talk to the homeowner about it and give 'em some options to do it.So straight away I needed more guys. So, um, went from, I think it was 12electricians when I first started there and, and now we're at, um, we're at 40 out on the road doing it,about 60 licensed electricians with all of the supervisory staff and team leaders and stuff as well.We always look at different trades. We've tried a few that haven't worked, um, but those plumbers are really going well,always looking for something we can do better. There's, you know, that you gotta keep looking at your businessand that's why I liked having, we like having, um, our consultant coming in on the safety side whereyou get caught up in your own stuff. Um, you think it's great, is it, isn't it?And it's only sometimes when you have an incident that you really need to look deep into your businessand find those things that you just haven't realized that you haven't been covering.Um, yeah, so for me, a few, a few takeaways.Um, train your staff. The worst thing they can do is leave to find new skills.We train things we don't even do. If the guys want to do something on PLCs or start ator starters, that's I'll, I'll still talk. Um, and,and generate that culture of learning and, and sharing. Be a bit open. You know, I'm, I'm the general managerof the business, but it's hard. I'm still an electrician. I've, you know, it came from my, from my family, my,my brother, my father-in-law, my grandfather. There's a lot of electricians there. So the family barbecues were, uh, a lotof trade talk back in the day. So, Apprentices mentoring,competency grading, um, we bring our apprentices in and we get them to do, um, it's basically a practical testthe first year is we wanna make sure that they can screw a mounting block on right? And war ups and switches and things like that.Put a bit of conduit on the wall as it goes further on throughout their, the years.We make it a little bit more complicated. Um, but my guys, my apprentices work one-on-onewith the tradesmen every day, constant supervision. It seems to be a theme this morning with supervision.Uh, and it's key, uh, they, they get a good apprenticeship with us. We don't do the, the real big stuff like someof your big players in the room, but, um, they get a very broad, uh, training with us.E-filing is not enough, like I said before. And, you know, we found that it's, um,it's something that the guys, they tend to think about a little bit more. If they've gotta fill out this form at every job,scan their QR code, get into the document and fill it out, makes them think about what they're actually doing andwhat they've learned as well. So this is from me.

Belinda Thank you, Scott. What a great overview of the practical things that can be done within workplaces,not only to keep, uh, young workers safe, but to achieve compliance. And I think you set a great standard in terms of allof those different initiatives, um, that you're undertaking. Not a paid endorsement,but I have had Fallon out to my house and, uh, who would've thought my smoke alarms were tooclose to the ceiling fans. So there you go. Um, for us now, having critical conversationsand creating a culture of speaking up, it's my pleasure to introduce Anneli Blundell. And, uh, she's an award-winning author and expert, affectionately known asthe Professional People Whisperer. Uh, Anna Lee is on a mission to humanise leadershipand transform the way we see and connect with each other. Recognised as the land professional of the Year by the Australian Institute of Training and Development and a gold Stevie Award winner for Entrepreneur of the Year. Anneli is a sought after leadership expert, mentor and author. Her work focuses on decoding peopleand performance dynamics, making the complex job of leading both, of leading people,both accessible and entertaining. Anneli is the author of several books,including When Men Lead Women and Developing Direct Reports, and is a regular media commentator featured across majoroutlets such as the Australian Herald Sun, Huff Post, and three A w Welcome, Anneli.

Anneli Critical Conversations, the conversations that as professionalswe know we need to have. Yet as humans, we'd rather do anythingbut have, you know, the conversations I'm talking about. So I'm talking about those awkward, uncomfortable kindsof conversations that you'd really just rather not be having things like, um, raising red flagsor risks or giving some difficult feedback maybe to a direct report or maybe even a work colleague.Or maybe it's about standing up for something that you don't think is right in the workplace.These are the kinds of conversations I'm talking about. And in this industry, unlike many others, this industry,it really is about the opportunity to save lives with these conversations.And the interesting thing is that as humans, even though we have to have these conversations,we are not typically that great at it. So today we're gonna talk about why these conversations canbe so difficult from a human perspective, but most importantly, what we can do as leadersin this space to make it easier for the people that work with us and for us to lean into these conversations.Now, I have to say it, it is always endlessly interesting to me to see the myriad of ways that us as humans tendto negotiate our way through these conversations. You know, the way we might avoid themor the ways we might put them off or have them without having to have them.Actually, it reminds me, I read an article recently about frogs stay with me.Um, and the article talked about a new communication system they had discovered in thisparticular species of frog. And that was when the male frog came.And how do we say this suggested reproductive relations with the female frog.The female frog faked her own death.No, I, I don't know, but I, I mean I think that's a little bit extreme, faking your own death. I mean, personally, surely she wanted to gowith the headache before escalating to faking her own death. Now, I know as humans this might be a little extreme for us.However, we do have other interesting ways of getting around these conversations.I've seen people in the workplace, no kidding, with this kind of strategy. You know, I'm not gonna say it to your face,but I'm gonna leave nice little trail of breadcrumbs for you to let you know what I'm thinking.Or maybe we've got people in the workplace who have a little bit more gumption, they're happy to have the workplace conversation.AnnaLeigh, I'm gonna give it to 'em straight between the eyes. I'm just gonna tell 'em like it is. Not very skilled at it, but happy to have that conversation.Maybe they're more likely to write something like this. Dear sir, bye-bye, I'm outta here.And of course, if you've got people who are that direct and that straight between the eyes, you might need one of these.A DCA. I don't know if anyone's heard of a DC, a designated crying area, but you only get 15 minutes.You can't, you know, we, we've got a job to do people, we've got work to be done. But all jokes aside, having critical conversations can makeor break your organization. And it certainly a impacts the safety culture.For almost 20 years, I've been helping people get heard at work. So I focus on working with leaders and their teamsand their organisations to build cultures of conversations that help people feel seen, heard and valued.And there is no greater way to create that level of conversational culture then by investing in the abilityto have these critical conversations. And in all the time I've been doing this work,I can tell you right now, it does not matter what industry you're in. It does not matter what level of seniority you have reached.At some level, most humans struggle with having these difficult conversations, exceptfor Greg, not his real name. Greg was a client of mine, an executive coaching clientof mine, and we'd been doing some work together for a number of months. And it was clear to me that he was one of those rare breedsthat seemed to have great skill when it came to having these difficult conversations.He would just go straight into them. He didn't avoid them, he didn't put them off. He was clear, concise and kind.But not only that, the people around him, the people in his team, they were willingto give him feedback. They were willing to wrestle with the ideas and, uh, critique things that he was offering,which was quite unusual. And I remember actually remarking on this, Greg seemed to be really good at these conversations. You know, this is, this is a, a really big deal, congratulations.And he said, well, confession, I didn't start my career like this. I wasn't always great at having these conversations.You know, I made mistakes as I was making my way through the ranks. But it wasn't until, uh, a very pivotal momentthat I really understood the importance of these conversations. I work in the transport industryand I had to attend the funeral of a team member, someone in my department.Now, whilst I wasn't there on the day, I take responsibility for the safety culture, for the conversationsthat were being had and not being had when that incident occurred. And I swore never again to let any conversation go unsaid.These are too important. And to me it became really clear that speaking you up is not a nice to have.It's a must have. And the onus of building that kind of culture is on me as the leader.I am setting the conversational tone in this workplace.And what I notice that happens is that as leaders in organisations, when it comes to particularly things like safety conversations, um, and escalation processesand the way we need to do things around here, like we've had a lot of conversation already around apprentices and training apprenticesand inducting people in and safety regulations and legalities. So we know losing microphone,excuse me, it's slipping off my head. So we know that, um, as leaders in the, Ooh,it's really slipping off. Excuse me, just a moment. It's just about to pop off my head.Just, you know, just chat amongst yourself for like 30 seconds. This is highly unprofessional. This is called, um, seeingwhat happens in the green Room behind. There we go. I think I've got it. I've got it. Yep.Just, just fell off the ear. Literally just slid off the back of my neck. Okay.So what I notice is that when we're having these conversations as leaders, we are talking about policies and practices.We are very clear on what is required to happen in these moments.But the gap that I see is that we are prioritizing policies over practices.And what I mean by that is it's very easy to get away with thinking that our job is done if we have the proceduresin place, we have the training, we have the policies, we know what we're supposed to do here, we talk about it all the time, annaly,everybody knows about it. Knowing about it and doing it is not the same thing.So the danger here is that we're prioritizing policies over practices.And the reason this is really important is because it's not enough for peopleto know what they're supposed to do. Human behavior will always win out.And when it comes to critical conversations, we are wired to do anything, but we are wiredto maintain peace, to maintain harmony. It is what kept us alive throughout millennia. So we know at the basis part of our brain that it is a risk to go against the group.It is a risk to go against somebody else and potentially ruffle feathers. And so as humans, we will do anything to typically,like obviously we have the conversations we need to have, but most of us don't want to necessarily.So there was some research reported in, um, uh, uh, an organisation by an organisation called Bravelywhere they showed that up to 70% of people were avoiding having a difficult conversation.Having done this work for the amount of time I have, I can say that's probably a conservative if not spoton, um, assessment. And when I think about this factthat we are wired to avoid these conversations, because inherently we understandthat if we go against the tribe, we go against the group, we say something that might exclude us from what's going onin our tribe, that we are in psychological danger if we do that.I had a look at some, um, really interesting research by Harvard Business Review recently. They showed that out of the top 20 most vulnerable workplace behaviors, you could dotop 20 most vulnerable workplace behaviors. The top six all had to dowith having critical conversations. So not only are we wired as humans to agree,to be approachable, to be affable, to belong, but we are also, when it comes to work,very clear about the things that are putting us at riskof exposure of being psychologically unsafe to use a, a current term.So the top six workplace behaviors, number one, giving an incorrect answer. We don't wanna look silly. Think about apprentices,think about people who are new. Think about people who are contracting into your business who don't know the way of the world right now.So giving an incorrect answer, making a mistake, expressing emotions. We are in an industry that is predominantly, um,dominated by men. If I just do a quick calculation based on who's in the room and my assumptions, I'm pretty sure I'm right,which means we're also looking at a different wave of dealing with emotions in the workplace.So it is very difficult to express emotions in the workplace without feeling on theouter, um, expressing disagreement again, what if it's your boss? What if it's a peer who's been around for 40 years?You don't wanna be seen to be the person who is going against that particular person pointingout mistakes of other people. We do not want to shame or blame. It very much goes against the Australian culture.And of course, just simply challenging the way things are done. What if that's the way we've always done it?Yeah, I know that's what it says in the manual annaly, but we've always done it this way. Don't worry, you'll get, you'll get a hang,you'll get a hang of things pretty soon. Don't worry, you'll get it. They're the kinds of conversations we needto be really vigilant about. But I wanna make this personal. Let's go personal for just a minute.I want you to think back way back. For some of you, not so much. For some of you, I want you to think backto when you were a new person in the work environment. Maybe it was your new, your first leadership role.Maybe it was your first supervisor or team, team leader role.I want you to think about the kinds of conversations that you felt were most difficult in that role.These are the kinds of conversations. Was it giving difficult feedback to perhaps a direct report,someone in your team about poor performance? Maybe it was a colleague not pulling their weight, heaven forbid.Maybe it was about a client or an external partner wanting more scope creep, pushing you, pressuring you to do things.Maybe it was your boss or maybe it was all of the above.In 30 seconds, turn to the person next to you as a young person in your career.Which of these conversations did you struggle with the most? GoYou known in the,I can tell you what you want. You don't want be love.If you don't want to be love,I can say it's what you, you know theAll right. And if you are playing along at home, of course you can pop your answers in the chatbox if there is one. And you can be involved in these conversations too. So I'm curious. Remember we are going way back when,when you were early on in your career, who struggled withat least number four, hands up. Gimme a show of hands, at least number four. So this is your boss, this is people more senior to you.Yeah. Did anyone have all of the above atrocity, right?Yeah. So remember, you were young, you were learning the ropes, you were figuring out how things work around here.You were paying attention to how other people were doing things. Yeah. The reason I wanna take you back to then isbecause your level of seniority, your level of power and status in the organisation has a hugeimpact on your voice. And whether you feel confident or enough or not to speak up, high statusstifles speech. So we can work overtime to have all the right policiesand procedures and guidelines and regulations and handbooks and all those things that we must have.But if we don't have the daily practices that supportthe living, breathing enactment of those policies, we will never have the kind of conversations we need to be having.And one of the hardest things to do is to be a junior person in the organisation and speak up to towards someoneof higher status than you. Think about it when you were new. Think about it when you were younger.This is what's going on right now with the people in the workplaces who are our apprentices,who are perhaps in a minority group in the workforce. Maybe we've got a gender split. Maybe we've got people with, um, English was a second language anywhere where you feel less than somebody else in terms ofthat power or rank or social status. If you feel that it will be stifling voice.And what this means is, as I said, policies are not enough. It has to be about the daily practices.And we know that we have to get this stuff right. Not only of course are we saving lives potentially,we are definitely saving lives potentially with these kinds of conversations. But there is an economic impact.My friends, and I'm sure you know this. Um, the more we can create cultures where people feel safe enough to speak up, to speak out,to speak against, the more we have healthy and fit and fighting people in our workplaces doing the right things. And of course that is good for the economy. Um, the Master Electricians Association on their websitereported these figures from last year and they suggested that if work related injuries and illnesses were eliminated,Australia's economy could grow by, oh, I don't know, a whopping $28.6 billion.But only if we can get these conversations right, and I think we can. So today I wanna leave you with three hot tips.And I'm talking to you as industry leaders. This is not a conversation about how to have a difficult conversation.You can look at that, you can look at that stuff online. There's lots of information. Chat, GTP can help you with that right now.But what I'm most interested in as leaders in this industry, what is your role?What is our responsibility in creating a kind of culturethat makes it easy for people to speak up? 'cause remember, low status,high status, power differential. Very hard to speak up. This is why Scott said that in his company, felon,they have the level four, the year four, um, lead apprentices.Thank you. Because the power differential between first year apprenticesand Scott is way too high, too intimidating, too much of an ask. So we have to lower that status, lower the fear,increase the safety, increase the voice. That's what we're talking about today. Are you excited?I'm excited. All right. Number one, my first suggestion is share stories.I want you to talk about your experiences in your career so far.What was it like when it was your first day on site? What was it like that day? You didn't say something,but your gut told you that you should have said something. What happened? What didn't happen? And what wisdom and advice do you wanna share with these people? When we're doing this, when we are talking about our stories and our lived experiences, we are normalising the very human, very regular presence of fear,of doubt, of anxiety or concern. Should I say something? What's going to happen if I say something?Am I at risk if I say something? So we wanna normalize that this is just a human experience and we wanna hear some stories of other people that we revere and respect who have already been through this. It models that vulnerability that we talked about as well. And of course it goes a long way to closing the gapbetween practice, uh, between policy and practice. Because policy is what we should do.Practice is what we actually do. And the more you can tell stories that paint a picture that say, actually what we say we should do iswhat we are doing, the more you are closing that gap, and this is what we wanna do. We talked about this also with the training,um, organisations. We are trying to build the cultures of safety in conversation Number two,we wanna support the stretch. If someone comes to you and says, I don't feel safe on my work site right now.I've raised my concern with the fourth year apprentice. I've raised my, raised my concern with other colleagues,with my onsite supervisor, nothing seems to be happening and I'm starting to get more and more worried.And finally they come to you. What you say next has everything to dowith whether they ever come to you again. You know that, right? Your response is either goingto support their, um, safety or squash it all together.I kind of think of it like, um, for the parents in the roomor anyone who's ever had a parent, this scenario might be familiar to you.So maybe you're in the lounge room and you hear a loud crash in one of the other roomsand something has broken and in comes your little child all lookingcontrite and embarrassed. I'm so sorry, mom. Dad, I broke the bars.It was a soccer ball. I know I'm supposed to not have it inside. I'm so sorry. And of course, you know thatwhat you say next determines whether or not your kid will ever own up to breakingthat vase right now. Of course, I'm sure some of you wanna have a reaction.What's the kind of reaction you wanna have? What do you wanna say when the kid's been playing?I told you so. There it is. That's I told you. So how many times have I told you,how many times do we have to have this conversation? You are. So this, you are so that of course we're humans,we wanna rail a little bit, but hopefully that kid has caught us on our best dayand on our best day, we know that is only gonna mean we are never goingto hear the truth from this kid ever again. And the same thing happens in our conversational cultures.When people take the risk, remember top six most vulnerable things you can do in theworkplace is all about speaking up, up. If someone speaks up, we need to reinforcethat they have done the right thing, so they are likely to do it again. So we thank them, we reinforce the importance ofwhat they've just done, and we call out the courage that they have demonstrated in doing so that is gonna ensurethat it happens again. And number three, be a role model. Be the kind of leader who is approachable with these conversations. Be the kind of leader that that first year  apprentice doesn't look at and go, I could never speak to that person. We wanna make them know that all conversations have a place in this organisation. Level agnostic when it comes to safety position does not matter.Lives matter way more. So ask for feedback, invite pushback, get people to challenge you.Model what it takes to, to have constructive and challenging conversations.The NeuroLeadership Institute in a paper they wrote about the neuroscience of speaking up sharedthat people are 26% more likely to speak up if they feel invited to do soand depreciated when they've done. So. We have to demonstrate to peoplethat we are serious when we say we want you to say somethingand we demonstrate that by what we do. It is not what you dictate, but what you demonstratethat counts as leaders. We need to be the kinds of people who,who create those conversations. If we wanna spark speech, if we wanna amplify impactand power up productivity. Did you get, did you see what I did? Did anyone catch the electrical references? Anyway, I'll just give you, I worked really hard on those electrical references for this industry anyway. If we wanna be the kind of leaders that creates this kind of conversation, we need to make surethat we are showing up living and breathing these conversations for ourselves.As Susan Scott, the author of Fierce Conversations once said,no single conversation is guaranteed to change the trajectory of a life, a marriage, a career,but any single conversation can. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Belinda Uh, Anneli, I loved that call out, that knowing about itand doing it are two different things. And for everyone online and everyone in the room, you know, now you now know howto encourage those critical conversations. Um, so thank you again for doing that.  As I mentioned at the beginning of the event, uh, Keith, the Commissioner of Electrical Safety, has been a memberof the Electrical Safety Board and Electrical licensing committee since 2011. And I'd love Keith to come back up to the stage to talk to you about your commitment to safety.

Keith Thanks. Thanks Anneli, that was an awesome presentation and Donna and Scott, um, and I think we got a fair bit out of what they had to say,but whilst we've been here having a bit of a yak and you getting information, um, we wanna swap something around a bit.Now, on your tables, hopefully there might be a notepad and pen, but if not, you're gonna get a survey soon.So for just a couple of minutes, I want you to have a think about if you could provide any information through the electrical safety office, OIR, anything that we need to do, changeor improve with respect to community education activities, what industry engagements you'd like to seeor think we can do better or more advanced. Any current issues you believe that we need to be addressed,that's not being addressed. And obviously when Rob talks about the role of electrical safety office, I guess, you know,as a an outsider, you think they're just out there issuing infringement notices and, and improvement notice.And that's just only one small aspect. The SO does, they do a whole range of activities and in fact, it's uh, the crew of about 95 people.They do a lot for a small unit, which should be commended. And what also would you do to promote electrical safety in your industry? So are amongst your tables is, has you got notepads on your tables at all? Is there something there? Just write down a few things ifyou don't or so be it. But if you've got any ideas that you think that we need to have as an input to electrical safety in Queenslandor improve something, no ideas, a silly idea. Um, might not be that flash, but put 'em on the tableand we wanna collect them when we leave. So we just spent a couple of minutes doing that. Thank you.

Belinda Thank you everyone for doing that. If you wanna just leave those on the table, the team will collect them, um, at the end of the breakfast. So thank you very much. I now, uh, would like to close. I would like to thank the speakers for today, uh, commissioner Attorney General, Robert Keith, Donna Kenny Scott and Anneli. I'd like to remind you all that it's not too late to register for other Electrical Safety Fortnight events, including the Electrical Industry Safety Toolbox Webinar, webinar. If you're in Mackay on the 10th of September,there'll be an electrical licensing and contractor forum. If you happen to be in Murrumbah on the 11th of September, there will be two electrical worker and contractor forums. Visit WorkSafe.qld.gov au to find out more or chat to the team at the registration desk today. Uh, Rob or Keith, who you've heard from today, also,please keep an eye out for an email that you'll receive from us later today, uh, for survey, uh,for feedback on today's event. We really value that feedback and allows us to continue to build on these,uh, year after year. Uh, and thank you for your time in doing that. Thank you for joining us today.It's great to see the event continue to be so well attended in the room and online.As leaders of the industry. It's fantastic to have your contribution and your thoughts and your continued impact to keeping our safe workers and communities thriving. So thank you very much. Take care. Stay safe.